more Aloe seedlings

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Aloe, Gasteria, Haworthia and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.

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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#76  Postby Agave_fan » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:46 am

I am jealous again Spiny! I need to figure out how to do that auction. lol

Glad the plants arrived safely and looking forward to seeing more pics in the future.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#77  Postby Marlon Machado » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:20 am

Really nice plants Tom, and good that they arrived well. I hope they will grow fast and soon flower for you! Please keep us updated of their progress.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#78  Postby Spination » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:23 am

Thank you all - but actually, thank you Woody for mentioning TCT in the first place. If not for your mentioning, I may still not have known about their interesting work.

As far as the selections, 4 of my original selections I was not able to get, because I did not use the listing page as designed. Instead, I sent an email message immediately after the listings were posted, but in the meantime, others snapped up my choices by posting directly to the listing page. Oh well, now I know how it works. I'm sure if I could read Thai, that would have helped (google translation is an awkward approximation)...but also I just didn't know how fast these plants after posting were getting snapped up. Other than Blood Jaw, and Blue Shark, which I was able to get reserves, or 2nds... as they had more than one available, the other 3 choices I made were after the fact, given they were among the few left over no one else chose. They're interesting, but far less so to me than the ones I originally selected. As such, I feel I can do much better the next time around. I think of this first experience as a trial run, to learn the ropes, so to speak. Next time, I'm confident I can get other plants that I find far more appealing and interesting. Among my criteria were spines, texture, and color. The net result of this effort is I left a lot on the table in terms of the genetics I was hoping to acquire.

Yes, I'm looking forward to eventually seeing my little plants grow, bloom, and be useful for breeding. Best case scenario is that I'm looking at a minimum of a year, perhaps two before that happens. Additionally, after hopefully successful pollination, and then germination, another 1-2 years before seedlings themselves also become useful. So... long term plan. ::wink:: I expect there will be offsets before seedlings. :lol:

Here's the 4 that I didn't get, but hopefully more like them available next time around.
3_a.jpg
3_a.jpg (66.56 KiB) Viewed 261 times

17_a.jpg
17_a.jpg (67.8 KiB) Viewed 261 times

22_a.jpg
22_a.jpg (60.32 KiB) Viewed 261 times

54_a.jpg
54_a.jpg (57.43 KiB) Viewed 261 times


The first and last one were the ones I wanted most of all. Next time! :8: I was already envisioning eventually crossing them with this...
2017 07 01 Aloe ex DW Spain d.jpg
2017 07 01 Aloe ex DW Spain d.jpg (61.46 KiB) Viewed 261 times

and trying to further accentuate those spines and tubercles in the progeny.

Funny thing - early on, I just acquired plants to have and enjoy for what they are. Now, when I see one I'm interested in, the first thing that crosses my mind is how I can use it's qualities/characteristics/features for future breeding... :lol:

PS - Woody - no idea on the genetics or plants (if they even have names) used to make these. With these, what you see is what you get... and that's it. D))
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#79  Postby Azuleja » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:57 pm

I'm happy for you for what you got this time, but even more eager to see what you can get in the next round.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#80  Postby Spination » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:54 am

Thank you. I can't remember what the month was on the first listing page I had seen, so not sure if they're quarterly or semi-annually. Anyway, I'll be watching, and I'm looking forward to giving it another try and doing better next time. Also, I can't wait for the leaves on the current batch to be opening up, signalling that roots are growing and water intake resuming. It's a little different this time from German desiccated plants received with leaves folded closed, but which had roots and merely needed to rejuvenate them - to this time where the roots need to be grown from scratch. No problem though, done that with the occasional offset removed sans roots on my own plants, so not expecting it to be a problem. I just know it takes longer usually. :))
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#81  Postby Spination » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:48 pm

Poking around through batches of seedlings - here are a couple of selected seedlings that I like picked out
2017 12 03 Aloe Sunrise #2 X Aloe sladeniana a.jpg
2017 12 03 Aloe Sunrise #2 X Aloe sladeniana a.jpg (69.43 KiB) Viewed 236 times

2017 12 03 Aloe hybrids seedling group a.jpg
2017 12 03 Aloe hybrids seedling group a.jpg (84.37 KiB) Viewed 236 times
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#82  Postby Agave_fan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:00 pm

All are very nice Spiny but if I were ever visiting, top left corner second photo would be the first in my pocket as I made a race for your door. ;)

I can't make out the second name though, marmalade and.... dragon? Love, Love, Love!
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#83  Postby Spination » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:55 pm

Thanks, and that one too I feel is quite promising. You are correct on the name/cross.

My question - will they get better or the other way around as they grow? Hard to say... I guess the reason I picked out those 4 from their respective batches for that 2nd photo was the amount of white on each that I found appealing and of interest - so a common theme there. I'm very curious about the one lower left to see how that develops - it's the result of 2 ex Dick Wright hybrids crossed together, and right now, looks to be the most interesting from that rather small batch of seedlings. The bakerii X and the Pink Blush X were crossed with something also featuring a lot of white, and interesting they look quite similar in that respect. I'm hoping as I keep crossing different things together and watching how they develop over their first couple of years, that I will be learning and gathering insight as to what characteristics are dominant and how much variability to expect among different groups of seedlings - the idea being to be able to cross certain plants together and have a better than average idea what the results should/could be.

Next step, assuming I can come up with a few deserving and worthwhile individual plants, will be to buy a TC kit and try my hand with that. ::wink:: That's just in the back of my mind for now, because they're going to have to get a lot bigger before I can even think about taking a scalpel to one.

Speaking of propagation, here is an interesting thing I've stumbled upon. Apparently, it seems to me, that as Agave can be cored to stimulate propagation, so can Aloe. Coring essentially is the extreme damaging of the growing point, causing propagation from surrounding areas of the plant. This aloe hybrid below got crown rot last winter, which I stopped with fungicide and then just because it seemed like a good idea at the time, applied rooting hormone powder to the damaged center. The result is that the plant has pupped like mad. The original rosette is alive but ceased growing new leaves. I have 4 of these - the other 3 are undamaged and not pupping like this at all. Just something interesting I think...that may be useful to me later on if I want a particular plant to propagate more than it would otherwise.
2017 12 05 Aloe Smoley a.jpg
2017 12 05 Aloe Smoley a.jpg (108.31 KiB) Viewed 206 times

2017 12 05 Aloe Smoley b.jpg
2017 12 05 Aloe Smoley b.jpg (65.55 KiB) Viewed 206 times
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#84  Postby Spination » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:31 pm

I noticed yesterday for the first time since I got them what I thought to be discernible recovery in the two TCT hybrids that were most important to me in my first purchase, but today it was even more clear. Recovery is well underway, and leaves are opening up from their typical after-shipping leaves-folded-closed situation (compare to pics in post #74). In time, the leaves should be relatively flat, so visually wider, and unique spines will stand out even more.
They're being kept warm, inasmuch prevented from getting cold. A few drops of water at the base of the plant every couple of days, to encourage root growth. There have to be functional roots now, otherwise, these couldn't be recovering already.
Aloe 'Blood Jaw', and Aloe 'Blue Shark' - by TCT (Thailand)
2017 12 10 Aloe Blood Jaw _ Aloe Blue Shark a.jpg
2017 12 10 Aloe Blood Jaw _ Aloe Blue Shark a.jpg (72.9 KiB) Viewed 185 times
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#85  Postby Spination » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:00 pm

Aloe inexpectata X largest seedling - 14 months old. Upright growth, similar leaf shape as inexpectata, but with bigger teeth, and rosette structure rather than distichous. Much faster growing than the seed parent, and much easier to grow as well. The X definitely added some hybrid vigor into the mix. The hybrid pollen parent (80% sure it was A. 'Paul Hutchison' ***) added some texture to an otherwise smooth plant, contributed the "better" teeth, and the rosette leaf formation.
*** the other pollen parent candidate is A. 'Franco' aka 'Lime Fizz' - I was hoping the characteristics of the seedlings would tell me which one, but it appears that for the most part, A. inexpectata genes were dominant.
2017 12 11 Aloe inexpectata X a.jpg
2017 12 11 Aloe inexpectata X a.jpg (78.45 KiB) Viewed 169 times

2017 12 11 Aloe inexpectata X b.jpg
2017 12 11 Aloe inexpectata X b.jpg (61.83 KiB) Viewed 169 times


Here's a sister plant to the original 3 A. inexpectata I got from Arid Lands. The first got busy flowering and produced the seed pods, then slowly deteriorated and passed on to Plant Heaven; the second here is busy trying to make a small colony, and the 3rd seems to be just holding it's own. I've found this plant difficult growing. Lower leaves especially don't seem to want to hang around for the duration... first tips drying followed by the demise of the leaf. Best case scenario seems to be new leaves growing at the same rate as older leaf retirement. At least that's the way it's been for me.
2017 12 11 Aloe inexpectata b.jpg
2017 12 11 Aloe inexpectata b.jpg (72.8 KiB) Viewed 169 times
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#86  Postby Spination » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:43 pm

OK, now that I compare the pics of the two other blooming aloe in that greenhouse kit that I did try pollen on A. inexpectata, and reviewed my notes posted earlier on in this thread - here are the pics of the two pollen parent candidates. For sure, at least some of the seedlings were A. 'Paul Hutchison' (because the two lower pods I got had only pollen from that applied), but it's possible the two upper seed pods were pollinated by A. 'Franco'. I say possible, because even though I did try that pollen on those flowers yielding the 2 upper pods, I really can't see the difference in the seedlings. Maybe as they get bigger, some sort of difference will become more apparent.
Anyway, these were the two pollen donors in play at the time. Comparing with the largest seedling above (which was from the first two and lower pods) - I conclude 'Paul Hutchison' is it's pollen parent.
2016 07 03 Aloe DW Hyb Thailand d.JPG
2016 07 03 Aloe DW Hyb Thailand d.JPG (81.57 KiB) Viewed 168 times

2016 06 25 Aloe Franco _ Lime Fizz.JPG
2016 06 25 Aloe Franco _ Lime Fizz.JPG (82.45 KiB) Viewed 168 times


Looking at these two plants, it becomes even more clear just how dominant the Madagascar species A. inexpectata was in the outcome of the seedlings. The seedlings clearly are not pure, but it's difficult to see very much contribution from the hybrid pollen parent candidates.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#87  Postby Marlon Machado » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:26 am

New Aloe sale from TCT Nursery this Sunday:

https://www.pantown.com/board.php?id=89 ... ction=view

I just got some seeds from them :))
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#88  Postby Spination » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:32 am

I decided to sit this one out, but in analyzing the results after the fact... all I can say is "wow". I see that there are multiple claims of plants posted the very minute they are posted (studied the time stamps of every post). In addition, in some cases, there was a claim on a plant before it was even posted! Huh? A shot in the dark approach to beat everyone else waiting to see what is next? I see a comment at the very end - a "rule" that claims before the actual plant posted will be cancelled. I guess that takes care of that inventive approach...

It looks to me, that even had I decided to give it a go this time around, I would have had zero chance of winning anything, because it appears this sale has become even hotter than the last time. There appears to be no lag between when the plant is posted, to when a claim is made (same minute). First, it appears I have no way of knowing exactly when the time of the postings occur in advance (unless I missed something, the date of the sale is given but no time when postings would be made), and then I would have to be awake and online the moment they're getting posted (assuming I knew when), and as they are getting posted , and since I would have to refresh the page constantly to see the latest addition which by then someone has already claimed the plant... it appears to me that there won't be another opportunity to get more plants.

Looks like I lucked out and got a few the last time around, and it looks like the window of opportunity on those have closed.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#89  Postby Spination » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:05 am

Marlon - congrats on the seeds! :U
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#90  Postby Marlon Machado » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:27 pm

Hi Tom, I acompanied the posting of pictures on the two days of the sale (Sunday and Monday), and the bidding on the plants was really crazy, but there were just a handful of people doing the bidding. And the strategy the bidders adopted was indeed to ask for the plant even before you could see what it was. Yes they were bidding as the pictures of the plants were being posted. Later some of them cancelled a number of the orders made.

Regarding the date of the auction, it was given as December 17 and 18, 20:00 (8:00 PM) Thailand time. This is GMT+7. In California (GMT-8) it translates to 5:00 AM. Here in Brazil it was 11:00 AM.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#91  Postby Azuleja » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:38 pm

Congratulations on the seeds, Marlon! It would definitely be fun growing some of those out.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#92  Postby Marlon Machado » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:59 am

Thank you Azuleja and Tom, yes I look forward to growing them and getting some nice plants in a couple of years. With the good genetics of these plants, some of the seedlings are bound to be real good.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#93  Postby Spination » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:59 am

Marlon, thanks for letting me know that the actual sale time was indeed given beforehand, and that you watched it live, so to speak. Getting up @ 5 AM is no big deal for me, but it would have been a waste of time since the claiming of plants by multiple parties occurred as each was being posted. Also, thanks for confirming as well that the action was really as crazy as it appeared to me just looking at time stamps after the fact. Based on previous activity, I don't think I would have been ready for that. As I would have been evaluating each plant being shown, they would have already been claimed several times over by the usual suspects. Yes, I recognized the same names from the last time around, so it appears a handful of the same people are the ones snapping them up. The good, is perhaps as these individuals acquire a goodly number of them, their appetites might be satisfied in the future... leaving a better chance for others? That's a question because who knows if those people aren't flipping them for a profit, which would make their demand for them virtually endless.
Check out #110 - posted @ $150, claimed by 2 within 1 minute. Even at that price, gone twice over in 1 minute flat.
A couple I would have bought, if possible:
#106 - but again, claimed by 2 different people within a minute, and a 3rd the following minute.
#58 - claimed by 2 within 1 minute.

The real problem is that I can't imagine sitting there at the computer refreshing the webpage every minute (or 1/2 minute) for 2 hours, making an instant decision, and then posting a claim before someone else already did? :lol: I think I could do it (using multiple open pages a couple on the "comment posting box" filled out in advance before each new posting, minute by minute, and ready to click "send"), but would I want to?
for example: Day 2 - 20:04 first posted plant, 22:06 last posted plant. 2 hours of intense attention at the computer, waiting for 1 or 2 plants I would really want... sound like fun? ::wink::

Anyway, good for the seller. Great plants, a following, and steady instant sales one after another. Kudos.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#94  Postby Marlon Machado » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:38 pm

Yes, it would have been quite frustating if I were bidding. I was just drooling over the pictures, and marvelling at how fast the plants were being snapped. I did not sit in front of rhe computer for two hours though - I just checked the site from time to time. I think the seller could make more profit if he used ebay - and propably it also would allow us to have a chance at the bidding :))
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#95  Postby Spination » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:23 pm

Actually - I think Ebay might not be best - because he already has a strong following with the means he is using, and a set up that works. Also, no 10% to Ebay, and no having to deal with their rules and problem buyers (there's always a few over time). If I were him, I'd be doing it auction style. Since folks are sitting there waiting to buy each plant, start the auction at his set price right after posting, and let 'em bid against each other for however minutes it takes before moving on to the next one without changing one iota of his format (comment boxes)... He can do the "going once, going twice, sold" for each when there's no more action, and then move on to the next one. It would increase the amount of time of the posting, but also increase the amount of income. By the way, I sure hope he isn't reading this... :lol:

Anyway, I'm still happy with the ones I got the last time. Hopefully I can do something with them genetics-wise after they grow and get blooming. Besides, I have a good assortment of plants with a variety of fetching qualities already. In time, perhaps I can come up with some killer stuff too... The next one might just be right here - just too early to tell! D)) (Or, in seed pods forming this very minute!)
2017 12 19 Aloe seedlings newest a.jpg
2017 12 19 Aloe seedlings newest a.jpg (102.55 KiB) Viewed 75 times
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#96  Postby Spination » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:25 am

20 days later, full recovery on the TCT Seven. I'm very pleased how fast these came around considering how the roots were clipped back, which I've never encountered before. They look none the worse for wear at this point...
The two freebies
2017 12 20 TCT a a.jpg
2017 12 20 TCT a a.jpg (68.25 KiB) Viewed 55 times

Blood Jaw - really wanted this
2017 12 20 TCT a b.jpg
2017 12 20 TCT a b.jpg (68.98 KiB) Viewed 55 times

Blue Shark - the other I was gunning for. When big, it really looks like a Dyckia
2017 12 20 TCT a c.jpg
2017 12 20 TCT a c.jpg (75.77 KiB) Viewed 55 times

And the other 3 I picked to fill out the order
2017 12 20 TCT f.jpg
2017 12 20 TCT f.jpg (82.69 KiB) Viewed 55 times
2017 12 20 TCT g.jpg
2017 12 20 TCT g.jpg (60.37 KiB) Viewed 55 times
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#97  Postby Spination » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:57 am

So, very much looking forward to these future seedlings, in the present form of developing seed pods. Got some interesting (meaning I like what the parents look like) genes involved, so I foresee at least a few pretty nice plants circa 1-2 years from now.
Definitely one of my favorites - Salt this time crossed with Aloe 'Little Gator'
2017 12 21 Aloe Salt S X Aloe Gator P .jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe Salt S X Aloe Gator P .jpg (73.36 KiB) Viewed 44 times

And the reciprocal cross - Aloe 'Little Gator' pollinated with that same 'Salt' above
2017 12 21 Aloe Gator S X Aloe Salt P.jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe Gator S X Aloe Salt P.jpg (25.87 KiB) Viewed 44 times

Speaking of 'Salt', here is my own seedling of Aloe descoingsii S X Aloe 'Salt' blooming (on the right), crossed back to an offset of the 'Salt' parent plant, and pods forming on both. Very interested in the outcome... with inbreeding like this, results can be surprising methinks. What I'm hoping for is even more intense texture.
2017 12 21 Aloe descoingsii X Salt S _ X Aloe Salt P.jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe descoingsii X Salt S _ X Aloe Salt P.jpg (102.78 KiB) Viewed 44 times

A nice DW hybrid acquired as #18 (meaningless except that it identifies this plant for me), crossed with Aloe 'Blue Horizon'
2017 12 21 Aloe DW #18 S X Aloe Blue Horizon P.jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe DW #18 S X Aloe Blue Horizon P.jpg (50.18 KiB) Viewed 44 times

And that reciprocal cross - Aloe ''Blue Horizon' S X Aloe 'DW #18' P
2017 12 21 Aloe Blue Horizon S X Aloe DW #18 P .jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe Blue Horizon S X Aloe DW #18 P .jpg (60.6 KiB) Viewed 44 times

And, 2 different 'Oik' individuals with seed pods forming. This one courtesy of pollen from Aloe 'Dark Shadows'
2017 12 21 Aloe Oik S X Aloe Dark Shadows P .jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe Oik S X Aloe Dark Shadows P .jpg (98.68 KiB) Viewed 44 times

This one pollen from Aloe 'Sal'
2017 12 21 Aloe Oik S X.jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe Oik S X.jpg (68.07 KiB) Viewed 44 times


Enjoying the various seedlings growing currently, and keeping the ball rolling with these future seedlings in the works
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#98  Postby Spination » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:01 pm

So, here's a real shocker! :shock:

I mean, the TCT hybrids arrived on Nov. 30th... today, I see this
and keep in mind it came with roots clipped back. Is this a tribute to the application of rooting hormone powder, or just plain luck of the draw? This one is far away from being a mature plant, and will look a lot different when it gets bigger...yet here it is making a Replicant already. :D
2018 01 06 Aloe Blue Shark b.jpg
2018 01 06 Aloe Blue Shark b.jpg (71.48 KiB) Viewed 27 times
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#99  Postby Marlon Machado » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:16 pm

Great Tom! And nice crosses too. I am curious to see what the Oik seedlings will look like.
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Re: more Aloe seedlings

Post Number:#100  Postby Steph115 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:19 am

Loving this thread. Seedling care has also been keeping me sane through winter, along with venturing out from xeric plants to some aggressive year-round growers. Here are some peglerae and polyphylla seedlings. Peglerae has been quite tricky. These look a little sunburnt, but a second pot getting less sunlight isn't faring as well. I've had quite a lot of young seedling loss with these species, unlike with this batch of A. Polyphylla which is turning out to be as resilient as my first. Peglerae is also incredibly slow, but I love those pudgy little leaves.
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A. Peglerae seedlings
IMG_6058.JPG (54.73 KiB) Viewed 15 times
IMG_6057.JPG
A. Polyphylla seedling
IMG_6057.JPG (63.29 KiB) Viewed 15 times
IMG_6056.JPG
A. Polyphylla seedling
IMG_6056.JPG (71.01 KiB) Viewed 15 times
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