humilis surprise

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Aloe, Gasteria, Haworthia and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.

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Spination
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humilis surprise

#1

Post by Spination »

Funny how I look at this plant nearly every day, and yet only now did I realize something funny going on. It appeared that pups were growing, and also the pot had a suspicious bulge on the side. Until today, the activity seemed to blend in there very well, very well camouflaged.
2016 08 25 Aloe humilis a X750.jpg
2016 08 25 Aloe humilis a X750.jpg (288.39 KiB) Viewed 2029 times
Definitely worth a better look...
2016 08 25 Aloe humilis b X750.jpg
2016 08 25 Aloe humilis b X750.jpg (252.23 KiB) Viewed 2029 times
And most definitely time for a bigger pot... Very exciting to look forward to more of this nice clone in the future.
2016 08 25 Aloe humilis c X750.jpg
2016 08 25 Aloe humilis c X750.jpg (196.24 KiB) Viewed 2029 times
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Re: humilis surprise

#2

Post by AGAVE_KILLER »

Tom, your Aloe appears to possess a striking resemblance to this hybrid:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aloe-humilis-x- ... SwknJXyWsi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have always thought that it looked a bit out of range for humilis -- your impression of the extent to which your plant aligns with humilis x pratensis versus straight humilis?

D.
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Re: humilis surprise

#3

Post by Spination »

Yes, resembles, but quite different IMO.

That plant (that Ebay listing) is actually Leo's - here is his thread featuring that plant, which I take it he now believes it to be a hybrid. It's a fascinating, beautiful plant, and waaaay more extreme than what I have. He had mentioned the pups growing from it are quite in demand.

Perhaps he'll see this thread and comment further on his own awesome plant.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4088" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mine came from a grower and Ebay seller in Berlin, Germany Sept 2013 described as "very blue spiny selection" of A. humilis. Anyway, I've crossed mine with more demure, plain, typical A. humilis, and have a number of those seedlings growing, and also crossed it to A. X 'Spinosissima', which is a hybrid of A. humilis and A. arborescens, with a few seedlings growing from that. In time, I hope to cross my (A. humilis super X A. humilis plain) seedlings together, and back to A. humilis 'super'. I'm hoping in about 3-5 years time I'll have a good quantity of very spiny plants like my original plant (hopefully better!) available to spread around. I'll be selecting for the most extreme characteristics, and hopefully successful developing my own line of extreme spiny (tubercles) plants.
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Re: humilis surprise

#4

Post by leo25 »

Spination, I have now a lot of new seedlings, I crossed my best Aloe humilis x pratensis , but now I have much more bigger plants and for this reason I am selling in Ebay some of them. :)
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Re: humilis surprise

#5

Post by Spination »

AGAVE_KILLER wrote:Tom, your Aloe appears to possess a striking resemblance to this hybrid:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aloe-humilis-x- ... SwknJXyWsi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have always thought that it looked a bit out of range for humilis -- your impression of the extent to which your plant aligns with humilis x pratensis versus straight humilis?

D.
Dan, I've been considering your actual question, and did some research. I think my initial answer was inadequate.

I don't have Aloe pratensis, so I had to rely on several good entries in the gallery to evaluate.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also reviewed:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2553" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finally, I took fresh photos of my 2 Aloe humilis, as represented to me as acquired.
2016 11 01 Aloe humilis #1 X750.jpg
2016 11 01 Aloe humilis #1 X750.jpg (239.06 KiB) Viewed 1942 times
2016 11 01 Aloe humilis #2 X750.jpg
2016 11 01 Aloe humilis #2 X750.jpg (285.17 KiB) Viewed 1942 times
My initial impulse when you asked the question was to fall back on what I thought I knew (laziness?), rather than start from ground zero, and evaluate with fresh eyes. So, that's what I'm doing here - assumptions tossed out, and starting from scratch.
My first task is to evaluate my 2 plants compared to the representatives depicted in the gallery.
I would rate my plants compared to the gallery examples as on both ends of average. My plant from Germany, I would rate as comparable to the first few photos in post 3 of the gallery entry, but higher on the "awesome" scale. My idea of awesome having to do with the prevalence/abundance of distinct tubercles. My 2nd plant from a US Ebay seller/nursery I would rate as comparable to the last few photos of those outdoor plants in that same post, but on the lower end of the "awesome" scale. In other words, #1 is above average compared to the "best", and #2 below average compared to the more plain examples depicted.

Now, I look at Aloe pratensis. First, I think with the hybridizing work I'm doing with a variety of Aloe species and hybrids, I'm starting to get a feel for what I would describe as mutual influence of characteristics from seed and pollen parents in the progeny. While the majority of my seedlings are still not old enough to confidently evaluate eventual features, it's my impression so far based on my oldest seedlings, that one parent does not completely dominate the exhibited features of the progeny. With good sample sizes within my seedling cross projects, I am seeing so far that there seems to be a relative majority that are similar in appearance, but definitely the potential for a few individuals that don't fit the consensus, perhaps leaning more one way or another toward one of the parent types. That said, it's certainly possible to envision at least some aspects of each parent plant in the progeny. Also, it's important to note that seedlings by and large early on tend to all look alike, rather nondescript in a similar sort of way, and over time, gradually start to display individual features characteristic of the species/hybrids/parents. This includes color, spines, markings, shape (leaf and rosette), etc. So far, it is the exception that a group of seedling looks distinguished from another group in some way.

So - A. pratensis. I look at those photos, and for the life of me, I can't see any qualities of that species in my A. humilis #1. Where are those wide triangular leaves? Where are those distinctive marginal spines? Surely, when I think of crossing 2 very different looking plants, I would expect at least some hint of the other parent evident in the offspring. I'm not seeing it, even with fresh eyes, and assumptions/predispositions tossed out, and in this case, I'm even trying. Even in terms of selecting the most extreme outliers from the norm, I'm doubtful that the influence of one parent (pratensis) would be visually and virtually non-existent. That just doesn't seem right, and certainly doesn't line up with what I've seen so far in my own seedlings involving various crosses(but I admit I need at least a couple more years at the pace I'm going before I would self-consider myself fairly competent). My conclusion is the doubting of A. pratensis genes in the immediate parentage of my plant in question. Different approach, but I again conclude that my plant is an actual A. humilis, with features consistent with the seller's description: "very blue spiny selection".

In regard to Leo's plant, when I look at the rosette in photo 2 of the Ebay listing, I can actually envision some influence of A. pratensis when reviewing the gallery photos, with wider leaves and the presence of tubercles on pratensis looking to be complementary to those of A. humilis. The form of the plant in post 5 of the pratensis gallery looks very much like the form of Leo's plant, in terms of general shape. I can buy that as the actual cross based on reviewing photo examples of each parent.

On another note, here are my seedlings to date. These are my 2 humilis types crossed together, pollen from #1, and seeds from #2 (and I'm assuming no selfing). Batch 1 from first seed pods sowed in April, Batch 2 sowed mid May. Going back to my comment that young seedlings take time to start presenting features indicative of their heritage, I would be completely unable to guess these are actually humilis seedlings without first-hand knowledge. ::wink:: 6 months old, they don't yet feature spines, or tubercles, although I'm expecting the next 6 months will make significant progress in that department.
2016 10 31 Aloe humilis #1 X #2 batch 1 b X750.jpg
2016 10 31 Aloe humilis #1 X #2 batch 1 b X750.jpg (222.53 KiB) Viewed 1942 times
2016 10 31 Aloe humilis #1 X #2 batch 2 b X750.jpg
2016 10 31 Aloe humilis #1 X #2 batch 2 b X750.jpg (230.49 KiB) Viewed 1942 times
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Re: humilis surprise

#6

Post by Spination »

On schedule, March once again, and blooming again. Last year, 2 blooms for the main rosette. This year, the same, but also looks like one of the small offsets growing out from under the plant has got a bloom of it's own underway.
2017 03 18 Aloe humilis a X800.jpg
2017 03 18 Aloe humilis a X800.jpg (246.52 KiB) Viewed 1870 times
2017 03 18 Aloe humilis b X800.jpg
2017 03 18 Aloe humilis b X800.jpg (275.5 KiB) Viewed 1870 times
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Re: humilis surprise

#7

Post by Spination »

Today, I cut off the spent flower stalks. Once again, no seed pods was I able to get this particular plant to generate - strike 3 now. However, pollen was transferred to a couple of Aloe hybrids that were blooming at the time, so I'll see in a year or so what comes of that.

Anyway, I thought today is the day I'm going to remove some pups. I had a vision of how it was going to go, and it turned out completely different, with improvising necessary. Usually, working with plants is very relaxing. With this procedure, I have two words that describe it perfectly. NERVE WRACKING!

First, I soaked the soil, which is what I do when I want to slide a plant out of it's pot intact with the soil, so I'm not doing a major disruption to the root system. With soil settle, the plant was sitting too low in the pot to even think about working with it as it was, and I did not want to do leaf damage. These leaves are somewhat delicate, in spite of their fierce look. They break easily, and I wasn't going to have any of that. Of course, the soil did not hold together as I planned, which turned out to be the best thing anyway. Since the soil broke up, I gently removed most of it from the plant, used a hose to clean the roots, which were mainly a group of thick tubular roots, like miniature, thin, long carrots. Carefully holding the plant with hands supporting the underside of the lower leaves, I looked around and around the plant wondering how to get those pups out. They were jammed up against each other, with no room to get fingers around. Also, they apparently grew right out of the base of the plant, with no roots of their own, as if like new separate groups of appendages of the mother plant. I could feel the delicate nature of offsets, and the roots, so an implement was out of the question. Finally, I found what I thought was the most vulnerable spot, managed to grab the offset, and twisted it out, carefully, with no palpable harm. Once one was out, a nice hole was thus created to get the next, and next, and next...carefully grabbing each one taking care not to damage them or leaves of the mother plant. Afterwards: a pile of offsets, a repot of the mother plant, rooting hormone on the pups, placement in a temporary tub until roots are subsequently generated.

Anyway, 4 years after the plant came to me, a new generation of clones ready now to start growing on their own. With nerves a bit unexpectedly frayed, a final satisfaction of a job well executed.

Before
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis a  X800.jpg
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis a X800.jpg (291.09 KiB) Viewed 1825 times
better look at the pup situation
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis c X800.jpg
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis c X800.jpg (240.52 KiB) Viewed 1825 times
After. I snapped one single leaf down low on the mother, otherwise none the worse for wear.
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis d X800.jpg
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis d X800.jpg (289.6 KiB) Viewed 1825 times
The haul
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis e X800.jpg
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis e X800.jpg (343.61 KiB) Viewed 1825 times
Rooting hormone
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis g X800.jpg
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis g X800.jpg (397.05 KiB) Viewed 1825 times
And now the wait for roots :U
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis h X800.jpg
2017 05 18 Aloe humilis h X800.jpg (293.44 KiB) Viewed 1825 times
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Re: humilis surprise

#8

Post by Azuleja »

Great work, that's a lot more pups than it looked like and the parent plant looks like it's breathing a sigh of relief.
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Re: humilis surprise

#9

Post by Spination »

Thanks. I do like the look of a single and clean specimen plant. I've come to feel a measure of ambivalence when it comes to removing pups from clustering behavior plants. It seems that as the pupping goes on, it gains momentum, and once they're removed, the process comes to a screeching halt, for a time anyway. No matter, it was a decent harvest, and now once they root they can become fine plants each themselves, instead of living jammed in under the shadow of the mother plant.
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Re: humilis surprise

#10

Post by Viegener »

Octomom looks better separated from her pups. Also, what a great selection.
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Re: humilis surprise

#11

Post by Spination »

I agree. Thanks - now I just need some rooting action. :))
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Re: humilis surprise

#12

Post by Spination »

I had no idea what was going on under the soil, so today I decided to check.
2017 07 15 Aloe humilis b.jpg
2017 07 15 Aloe humilis b.jpg (124.65 KiB) Viewed 1737 times
Good!
2017 07 15 Aloe humilis c.jpg
2017 07 15 Aloe humilis c.jpg (128.14 KiB) Viewed 1737 times
2017 07 15 Aloe humilis d.jpg
2017 07 15 Aloe humilis d.jpg (106.08 KiB) Viewed 1737 times
Even one runty looking one I thought was probably dying has roots, so I think that one will progress from here on out as well.
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