Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

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Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#1  Postby Woodlily74 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:37 am

Im a cross with Zebra Haworthia x Aloe Salt hoping for heavy teeth and texture on an Aloe like offspring. What can I expect?
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#2  Postby Spination » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:57 am

You can expect a surprise. D)) But, after successful pollination, seed pods, seeds, germination....it will in all likelihood be about 2 years before you get to really see exactly what kind of surprise you got. Does look like fun though!
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#3  Postby Spination » Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:36 pm

I'm wondering if you had any luck with seed pods?
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#4  Postby Kwie2011 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:51 am

I think you'll be disappointed. I think A. haworthioides is a better choice for more and larger tubercles. From what I've seen, the gene for leaf texture in Haworthia is different or not compatible with the gene in Aloes. I'm basing this only on those few photos I've seen on the net with which the parentage is listed. That's not at all scientific, and requires several assumptions, so take it with a grain of salt.

Of course, it can't hurt to try, and it's fun, so I'd go for it anyway. ::wink:: What do you have to lose?
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#5  Postby Spination » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:14 am

Speaking of a grain of 'Salt'... D)) the reason I was asking is that I've found a few hybrids that are very difficult to work with. Salt in particular is one I've never seen the small flowers open up very much, and I've never seen the stigma protruding - which is mainly how I know if it's likely to get potential pollination. Once I see the stigma protruding from an Aloe flower, it is usually receptive right then to have pollen introduced, and seed will usually set. So, when one never even sees the stigma, pretty hard to get results. I have 3 different 'Salt' from J & J, and a blooming size pup already...and in at least a dozen blooming events, I've been able to get a pod on that plant to actually form twice now. One of those times, I had 2 pods form. No problem using the pollen, but a lot of trouble getting pollen from something else to take. Aloe 'Christmas Carol' is another such very difficult one to get seeds to set. Actually, add 'Kelly's Blue' to that list as well.

Regarding actual 'Salt' seed parent pods, I've only been able to get seed to germinate once now. It's a cross between a no-name ex Dick Wright hybrid, and 'Salt' (which afaik also originates from DW). I got 15 seeds to germinate from the DW, but only 2 seeds from the 'Salt'. My feeling is, not only is it hard to get pollination on it, but there might also be an issue with viable seeds in the case of 'Salt' as seed parent. One more item of information as well. My 'Salt' are all obviously the same clone, and in trying to cross 2 to each other, I got nada. Absolutely nothing at all. My guess then is it's likely self-sterile. Crossing one clone with another would essentially be the same thing as trying to self-pollinate, so my results make sense, since a lot of them are self-sterile. At least I know now not to waste flowers trying that again. An earlier cross I made with 'Salt' was back-crossing it to one of it's very probable ancestral parents - Aloe descoingsii, and I had good success with pods setting on descoingsii, and good germination, but, as you can guess, not a single seed pod on 'Salt'. Hopefully, the seedlings once they bloom I can use... Anyway, now I have 2 different hybrids growing with 'Salt' as the pollen parent, and one as seed parent. In time, I'll see what I can do with them. :)) It's a lot of fun playing around with the crosses, but some definitely are more challenging, and it does take a little bit of wind out of the sails when there are no results from efforts. To quantify that from my own efforts trying to get seeds from 'Salt' - 2 blooms each per year... a dozen or more blooming events combined... 2 seedlings now from a couple of seed pods from 2 of those blooming events. That's a lot of work, and time passed, for 2 seedlings! And as yet, it could take a year before I can see characteristics on those 2 seedlings which will then tell me whether they are even worthwhile. ::roll:: :lol: In any case, I can state with some level of certainty based on my trials so far, it's a much better pollen parent than a seed parent, which does give the hybrid some value for breeding, even if it rarely will set seeds itself, and even if those said seeds are rarely viable.
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#6  Postby Azuleja » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:40 am

Fantastic stuff! Don't let improbability keep you from trying potential crosses. You never know what will stick. There was a Haworthia tesselata listed on eBay that appeared to be an intergenic cross with a toothy little tabletop aloe. It had the snake pattern on its leaves with marginal teeth and bumps underneath. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but I had to really rein myself in. It was to die for. If any of you bought it, don't even tell me.
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#7  Postby Spination » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:25 am

Now that you mention it (and thanks for mentioning), I do recall seeing some very nice looking H. tesselata. Now I'm asking myself how it is I never got one? Something to be remedied! :))
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#8  Postby Azuleja » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:22 pm

Get a few and save one for me. I'm happy to come up with more ideas for you as well 💡 :lol:
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#9  Postby Spination » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:45 pm

Azuleja wrote:Get a few and save one for me. I'm happy to come up with more ideas for you as well 💡 :lol:


:lol: Speaking of which, I was going to ask you if you would test-grow this one for me? You mentioned before it sounded like an interesting cross, and I would like to get an impartial opinion of the plant after it grows a bit.
Say the word, and I'll get one of these little guys in the mail to you (no cost). I believe these would color up very nicely, and the variation among the seedlings presently is due to what is being shaded by what above/nearby. The petrophila is fairly cold-tolerant, the elgonica not so much, but both my parent plants have the propensity to color up fabulously. Fortunately, it's not going to be a huge plant, and wouldn't take a whole bunch of room in a pot with some winter cold protection. Want it? It can be an additional thank you gift for the 'Princess Jack' you got me... :U
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#10  Postby Azuleja » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:57 pm

Cool, absolutely. It can hang out with my seedling gang.
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#11  Postby Spination » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:12 pm

Cool. Expect it this week. D))
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#12  Postby Woodlily74 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:15 pm

Nada I got nothing. No pods on Haworthia or Salt! I did notice some of the pollen from Salt are light colored pale yellow white. It may be infertil?
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#13  Postby Spination » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:25 pm

I've had success with the pollen from 'Salt' on other Aloe already, as mentioned, but less luck getting seed pods to actually develop on 'Salt'. Not complete failure, but minimal success.
Also, getting Haworthia flowers to pollinate seems to be a different animal. You have to really get that paint brush down in there... I gently squeeze the flower, which helps to open up the tube a bit more, and stick the paint brush with pollen on the tip down inside. Honestly, I am less practiced and competent with the Haworthia flower pollination - still working on it, but I did get some seed pods this last winter, and I have some seedlings growing.
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#14  Postby Woodlily74 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:20 pm

If form follows function. Could the heavy leaf texture be a response to increasing global temperature. With the rough leaf surface the sunlight and it's heat would be scattered instead of being directly absorbed allowing the plant to cope better with this type of stress?
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#15  Postby Spination » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:34 pm

Interesting thoughts.

However, I believe the work we and others do hybridizing and coming up with different and interesting variations is due to genetics, and selection. I also believe that any trends noted are the result of "fashion", or stated otherwise, a result of personal tastes, and perhaps also the consensus tastes and preferences of consumers for some in the trade dependent on sales, which could well influence success or failure. In my case, I like what I like, and strive for what I find attractive, more along the lines of purely personal preference or whimsy. I guess that's the advantage of a pure hobbyist who is beholden to no one(s).

The process of a line of plants adapting to compensate for GW, or climate change, speaks to evolution, which is a slow process... more along the lines of eons of time, rather than the blink of the eye measure of time represented by mere generations of plants.

What you note as an advantage would be a coincidental advantage of what appears to be trendy breeding. I know I like those heavily textured hybrids, and it appears I am not alone. D))
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#16  Postby Woodlily74 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:26 pm

Oh yes let's no forget about the metteling hand of humanity.🤔
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#17  Postby Woodlily74 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:22 pm

Tom,To clarify I was thinking of Marlon's post regarding the 1st specie Aloes that developed leaf texture and why that may have came about.
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Re: Creating Aloes with heavy teeth texture?

Post Number:#18  Postby Marlon Machado » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:06 pm

Woody, I thought about it, and realized that Kelly Griffin's hybrids were not the first to have texture, in special the ridges on the leaves. Dick Wright's hybrids had texture long before the KG hybrids appeared. For example I can mention Doran Black. What Kelly Griffin did was to add the red color to the palette of the hybrids (the DW hybrids, and hybrids before that, only displayed shades of green and white), and of course KG has created numerous gorgeous hybrids.
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