Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Aloe, Gasteria, Haworthia and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.

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Stone Jaguar
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Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#1

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Howdy, all.

I have spent quite a few hours across the past several weeks looking at plants in succulent nurseries and garden centers in SF Bay Area and Phoenix Metro. Since I was never much interested in them until recently, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the eccentric-looking, fancy aloe hybrids made by Kelly Griffin and micro-propagated by a couple labs appear to be very well-represented in the nurseries that I visited, both in terms of variety of cv. and numbers.

I was, however, rather taken aback to see that EVERY nursery that I have visited had lots of flowering hybrid aloes with the characteristic, "spiny pineapple" galled inflorescence that indicates an aloe mite infestation mixed in amongst the general populace.

It has been discussed at length here before, but worth repeating that oftentimes this pest is often not evident until flowering. Due to proximity, I have to assume that all of the plants that I have seen lately have been infested in spite of being asymptomatic when not flowering. Unlike the damage caused by agave mites that often leaves telltale visible damage on the leaf bases and serves as a warning to prospective buyers, it seems EXTRA paranoia is the order of the day when buying these mass market aloes at nurseries or online because of the nature of this pest.

Quarantine and multiple prophylactic (?) sprays of several miticides in rotation - always part of my regimen for dealing with new succulents anyways - are given extra attention after these observations.

J
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#2

Post by Spination »

It's certainly worth repeating.

I don't know if this has become an increasing problem, or whether I'm just hypersensitive to this issue now. From information shared on this site only recently, including your own discoveries of late, it could well be a situation developing into epidemic proportion.

One can never be too careful, and precautionary spraying of miticide seems to me a very good idea, especially regarding all new arrivals. I had recently adopted that policy myself.

It's also important to stress, that a plant may well look quite healthy, until the tell-tale malformed inflorescence signals the problem. It is only in a very advanced stage that the leaves also exhibit malformation due to mite activity.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#3

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Exactly!! I have been quite surprised to observe ostensibly "healthy" foliage on all of the plants I've seen so far with newly-emerged, grotesquely galled inflorescences. I would not have guessed everything in a tray or on a bench was exposed to aloe mite infestation if it were not for these deformities. Lesson learned, fortunately before I ever had an issue with it. I would never purchase nor accept an aloe or agave without it getting sprayed and going into quarantine for at least a couple months.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#4

Post by Stan »

Its not common to have that show up on established Aloe's in the bay area.Actually I've never had it happen. I would wager J,that instead of passing up a good deal,you buy,remove whats mite infested and there is a great chance that the mites wont return. I could be wrong- but I doubt that mite can take our longer,cooler- even the occasional freeze- winters.
But,I cant promise anything. Just an observation.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#5

Post by Spination »

Actually, they take it just fine. Cutting off a piece of infected plant won't solve the problem either. You can't see the buggers, and I guarantee if you know they're on one part of the plant, they're all over it. And, if they're on one plant, it won't be long before they're on another, and another... I had acquired a couple of plants from Florida last year... that was my first experience and it took me a while to figure out what was wrong. Initially, I thought the growth was a bulbil. Yeah...embarrassing. It took Avid to get rid of them. Now, every new Aloe that comes in gets Avid-ized. Whether it needs it or not, I don't care. Not going through that ever again. Once was one time too much.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#6

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Stan:

I definitely am with Tom on this, but even more so :lol:

I have seen them now at plenty of nurseries and garden centers in this area, including a couple well-known ones that should know better. I generally don't buy from brick and mortar retail nurseries anyways, but I would never expose plants in my collection to a known peril without major mitigation at entry. I know lots of people don't use synthetic pesticides in their gardens/homes/collections and I am perfectly fine with that viewpoint, just not my thing.

Jay
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#7

Post by Stan »

Was that on outdoor plants or greenhouse? I've never seen what I was 100% sure was aloe mite. I thought a couple of the leaves on the Aloe speciosa looked a bit funky- I cut those off and tossed into the green bin. So far,so good.
Well,its never a good idea to buy a sick plant. But!,if its a plant species you really want,it might be saveable.
But,if you feel like better safe then sorry,nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#8

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Stan, mostly under lath with some in partially shady outdoor placement and one enclosed greenhouse. The reason I posted was precisely the uncertainty you refer to...it can be impossible to detect if early infestation and plants not flowering, but still invasive. I *guess* that some nurseries aware of the agave mite threat are still unaware of this problem in tabletop aloes?

I think I'll leave it to others here to save problem plants ;)
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#9

Post by Woodlily74 »

A little dish soap and some deluted bleach will take care of em cute little buggers. Have you read Geoff's article on them at Dave's Garden with photos of the little beasties...
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#10

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Woodlily:

That article is almost 10 years old and many chemical countermeasures to this problem have emerged in the interim. Taking its contents at face value today is like reading contemporary pieces on outbreaks of agave mites that fatalistically suggested removal and disposal of infected agaves and related plants as only effective control.

Please note that Geoff Stein writes in this piece that even common household controls like soaps, etc. "probably" kill mites, and that "most toxic products" will easily kill aloe mites. He does, however, make the critical observation that damaging populations of these pests are largely located inside the plant tissues and so isolated from contact controls. I believe the article makes it quite clear that he found them almost impossible to completely eradicate from his collection at the time. Multiple applications in rotation of modern systemic pesticides with translaminar action that target eriophyid and tetranychid mites are, in fact, successful at controlling these pests in ornamental succulents. Many people on this forum can attest to their efficacy.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#11

Post by Spination »

Woodlily74 wrote:A little dish soap and some deluted bleach will take care of em cute little buggers. Have you read Geoff's article on them at Dave's Garden with photos of the little beasties...
I don't know how cute they are, because I've never seen one. I've only seen after the fact and too late the damage they cause, because they are microscopic in size. Also, once they've built their protective galls in/on the plant, they are fortified, so trying to wash them off isn't going to work.

From a practical point of view, if it's finally discovered that there are mites present, even if the evidence is only present on a few individuals, trying to wash them off doesn't seem feasible to me. If you're lucky, you'll see the damaged inflorescence as it's developing as the first sign of their presence, because they prefer new growth, including the fast growing new growth of flowering structures. If left undisturbed, I found they can form their galls on the plant even low on older leaf tissue, indicating they can indeed infect the entire plant. The problem is, once they are known to be present on a few plants, one does not know how pervasive the pest problem is, and the fact is they do spread from plant to plant, but from what I've found, a plant usually nearby, and over time. So, the practical application of using dish soap and diluted bleach to wash each plant (if you don't treat them all, you won't know how many and where they're still left behind)... well, I have hundreds of plants in close proximity. I can't imagine taking each one and trying to wash it with soap, even only with a spray bottle. Other than the issue of hoping it's effective (the "probably" referred to by Jay), the reality for me is that it's not even feasible in terms of time invested. Spraying with a translaminar, systemic, proven effective miticide is the only reasonable option. I can spray hundreds of plants in a 1/2 hour, and know that the chems are being absorbed by the plant, and that the substance is for sure, and not probably toxic to the mites. A couple of applications, spaced a week or so apart, and even with a rotation of Avid and Forbid, is pretty much guaranteed to do the trick. Spraying new arrivals if/when they arrive one or two or so at at time, prevents the reintroduction of the same problem.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#12

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Again, I think it is pretty clear that GS was trying to make the point that these arthropods are, when just crawling around in an exposed environment, vulnerable to all sorts of handy things like detergents, bleach, etc. (I would add the Houzz gardening forum-type recos of Formula 409 and dilute rubbing alcohol to that list). But none of these products is a translaminar, so it is a complete waste of time to "wash" your plants with them and believe that you're eradicating eriophyid mite infestations. Even a lengthy quarantine period is apparently not enough. See above chemical recos.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#13

Post by Spination »

Yes, and I'm pretty sure this is a classic case of "preaching to the choir", inasmuch as we're on the same page regarding this problem.

I would just point out, that trying to "wash" a plant of these pests seems to me particularly ineffective. For example, look at a semi-mature table-top Aloe, look at how the plant's rosette structure is, not to mention the typically not-smooth, textured surfaces. How can one really effectively wash such a plant? Underneath the leaves, in the crevices, the nooks and crannies? Sure, you could pull each plant out of the soil, use a bucket of water with your 409, bleach, whatever...dip 'em, wash 'em, dip 'em again...ect. Then, dispose of all your medium, disinfect and clean pots, start fresh with your "clean" (?) plants, and feel perhaps like you solved the problem. I'm envisioning this and the only appropriate response that comes to mind would be something along the lines of hysterical laughter, because that potential solution is a joke. Why? Because I would bet that the problem is not solved. Perhaps knocked down to varying extent, but in time...if not absolutely eradicated, the problem is coming back.

Or, as we both know... spray the plants with these heavy-duty chems, and literally poison the plants with what kills the pests, so they (the mites) die. Repeat to ensure efficacy, and also employ rotation of proven miticide products to eliminate the possibility of developed resistance, and creating super-bugs in the place of the original problem.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#14

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Tom:

My admittedly alarm-filled posts on this subject are more for others' benefit (I hope), not yours, since you clearly have your radar trained on this pest for some time and have taken defensive measures to keep it from regaining a foothold in your collection. My response to Woodlily's post yesterday was made to clarify to lurkers and so forth that this is a major concern that requires specific control protocols rather than just something you spray with anything handy and -Voila! - goodby aloe mites.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#15

Post by Spination »

I know, and what I was doing was chiming in. We're totally on the same page, and I hope our conversation helps to alert others and raise their level of awareness and concern about the issue. I think, as do you, that using inadequate measures is a waste of time, and that if one's collection is exposed and thus stricken with these pests, the heavy artillery is called for. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#16

Post by Viegener »

I'm about to spray all my aloes, as some of the (long established) ones, x nobilis etc, have some infestation.

I have Avid & am getting an adjuvant, and intend on ordering some Forbid asap for a follow up in a few months. Some questions though: should I wait for some cooler weather? It's been hot lately & I think I remember reading that the miticide stresses the plant...
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#17

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Vieg, et. al.

Worth a read. Please note that many miticides are not labelled for, nor effective against, eriophyids.

http://trec.ifas.ufl.edu/mannion/IST%20 ... icides.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I have written before here and elsewhere, I have always used three unrelated compounds in quick rotation (i.e. 5-7 day cycles) for spider mite control and follow same protocol for prophylaxis against agave, aloe and gall mites on hydnophytines.

If you're not under pressure to spray, "yes" I'd wait for a cool window to spray in very early morning. Surfactants can be tricky with some miticides. If rain is not forecast nor likely, I would go control product solo. Pylon is a great miticide I use that specifically recommends not to mix surfactants with it.

Note: none of this constitutes any endorsement or recommendation by me to use a specific product. Always know your local regs and keep safe if you do use any pesticide.

J
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#18

Post by Azuleja »

Good read. I like the table. I wouldn't wait for cool weather to spray if needed. I like to spray at dusk and haven't had any problems despite hot weather.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#19

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Late afternoon-evening is also great if RH is way down and light is good enough to spray by. I just prefer to have leaves cool, see spray coverage and know that leaf axils on the plants will be dry in a couple hours. Almost anytime temps are safe and cloud cover heavy is also fine, IME.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#20

Post by Spination »

I have also done spray in the evening as my go to protocol, allowing the wet applied to the leaves to soak in, without the sun to heat and evaporate it. Another plus for me regarding evening spray is that I am highly sensitive to the "smell" (stink!) of both Forbid and Avid, and I appreciate getting the spray done fast, and then getting far away quickly allowing the entire night before I would have any reason to go near the plants again the following day. Also, as mentioned by Monger elsewhere, a shower and change of clothes immediately following is a really good idea.
Also, if I knew I had a problem now, I also wouldn't wait until later to deal with it.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#21

Post by mcvansoest »

My problem with most of these fancy miticides is that most are way out of my price range not just for what I am willing but also what I am able to spend. For example I just did a search for Pylon and the liquid version on amazon and they want just about $500 for a pint of it... Given that the single most expensive Agave I have ever bought was $45, I simply cannot justify spending that kind of money even if it lasts me the rest of my life... Avid is <$100 for about 8 fl. oz. and when I suspected bringing a plant with mites home, I got that, but as has been said by many people here: you want to rotate your miticides when you are applying them (which I do not do on a routine basis unlike the anti-snout weevil stuff). So I have been looking around for something else, for the next time I feel treatment is necessary. This list will definitely help.

Just to get back to the Pylon:
Interestingly, when I search for the active ingredient in Pylon, Chlorfenapyr iso the trade name (Pylon) on amazon, I find a product called Phantom that is sold as a termiticide that sells at $80 for 21 fl. oz. (so a little more total product for 6x less). It does not list mites on the list of pests it treats for, but the active compound given on the label beyond Chlorfenapyr is exactly the same even in the same concentration... what am I missing here?
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#22

Post by Azuleja »

I'm with you on the pricing/quantity being too much. The most affordable ones I've found are Avid, Forbid and Sevin. Very interesting about the termite spray.

I get all bundled up in boots, pants, long sleeves and gloves. I also have a mask, goggles and bandana for my hair. It looks ridiculous and there's very little overspray if the air is still, but I do it anyway. It all gets washed immediately after.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#23

Post by toditd »

Avid, Forbid, Pylon and Sevin are all listed for use against Eriophyid mites. The first three are translaminar. But I have never seen Sevin listed as being translaminar. Perhaps Sevin might be useful as an option in rotation, but I would question its effectiveness if using it alone. Eriophyid mites live within the tissue of our agave and aloe plants, not on the leaf surfaces, so a translaminar treatment is really necessary to get the best of these little critters.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#24

Post by Azuleja »

No, Sevin is not translaminar. You must spray all leaf surfaces thoroughly. I agree that it would best be used as the third agent in a rotation. Pylon seems preferable just not affordable.
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Re: Aloe mites - The Hidden Menace?

#25

Post by Viegener »

I found Pylon on eBay, 2 oz. for $23. Does anyone have a sense how far that will go? Something tells me it's not enough...

Also what do you think of this Forbid, 2oz for $31?
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