Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
- MsWhipplei
- Bulbil
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:59 pm
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
And again to explore the last remaining nooks and crannies of this area. Today we found eleven new A. delamateri sites and a field of apparent A. chrysantha × A. delamateri hybrids, with two pure A. delamateri stands at the center, still contributing genetic material to the mix. We have now found 28 A. delamateri sites here, making this one of the richest concentrations of the domesticate in the state. We also found an incredible 'bird's nest' crested Echinocereus. We have never before seen its like.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
More more more! Back we went to search a couple of adjacent spots, and our efforts were rewarded with the discovery of four new A. delamateri sites. One of these sites was unusual in that A. delamateri was growing right alongside A. chrysantha, which suggests a recent A. chrysantha incursion. We also stumbled upon several beautiful and mysterious Agaves we have only rarely seen. These may be A. parryi × A. delamateri hybrids (???) or a new unnamed domesticate. We have no way of knowing, but our interest is piqued now that we have seen several plants across three separate locales.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 1241
- Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:30 am
- Location: Phoenix, Az.
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:11 am
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
The "enormous intermediate 7 feet across" is quite striking with its long, clean, color-zoned leaves.
It is not difficult to imagine how handsome would be a landscape adorned with these.
That seed from these may one day be available gives hope.
It is not difficult to imagine how handsome would be a landscape adorned with these.
That seed from these may one day be available gives hope.
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
And again, this time into the land of ice and snow after much of Arizona had been hit by an unusually fierce winter storm three days prior. Snow and mud and water and ice -- everywhere! We had never gone off-roading in such conditions before, so a valuable learning experience. The Jeep availed itself admirably, having far less difficulty with snow and ice than it had with mud in prior excursions, not that we had any particular shortage of mud today. In any case, A. chrysantha and more new A. delamateri sites -- IOW, more of the same, only trimmed in white.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Continued from previous post...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Since we have recently returned to exploring Sinagua and Hohokam ruins, it seems only fitting that we also return to the haunts of our favorite and most familiar prehistoric Indian culture, the Salado. As Ledge House essentially provides nearly irrefutable proof that A. phillipsiana is a Sinagua cultivar, the ruin we found today does much the same for A. delamateri and the Salado, so an exciting find. This well-preserved pueblo (of sorts!) sits atop a hill next to a prominent waterway, which provided a consistent and formidable obstacle toward reaching today's goal. In fact, we would have had a far easier time were we equipped with a canoe or perhaps a wetsuit, as opposed to hiking gear. But all's well that ends well, the camera and GPS equipment managed to stay dry through several river crossings.
Today's ruin is unusual on two fronts. It is a small ruin, with 4' walls throughout and only a few rooms, but one room is an enormous oval some 70' across. It may have been used as a common area or ceremonial chamber, except that the ruin's small size suggests minimal occupation. OTOH, it may be connected to the site's other unusual feature in some manner we are currently unable to surmise. This is the only ruin we have found to date that has the Salado cultivar, A. delamateri within eye shot. We've found copious numbers of A. delamateri near Salado ruins a great many times, but always at some discreet distance, for any number of good reasons. But today's site features A. delamateri fields as part of the ruin, and they appear to have been grown here in large numbers. We found piles and piles of spent stalks and perhaps 100 plants still going strong across an area of about an acre, some right at the base of the ruin. We also found some big, beautiful Dudleya on the way up, and a few were just beginning to bloom.
Today's ruin is unusual on two fronts. It is a small ruin, with 4' walls throughout and only a few rooms, but one room is an enormous oval some 70' across. It may have been used as a common area or ceremonial chamber, except that the ruin's small size suggests minimal occupation. OTOH, it may be connected to the site's other unusual feature in some manner we are currently unable to surmise. This is the only ruin we have found to date that has the Salado cultivar, A. delamateri within eye shot. We've found copious numbers of A. delamateri near Salado ruins a great many times, but always at some discreet distance, for any number of good reasons. But today's site features A. delamateri fields as part of the ruin, and they appear to have been grown here in large numbers. We found piles and piles of spent stalks and perhaps 100 plants still going strong across an area of about an acre, some right at the base of the ruin. We also found some big, beautiful Dudleya on the way up, and a few were just beginning to bloom.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Continued from previous post...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:11 am
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Interesting and picturesque site.
What do you think the odds are that the Carnegia gigantea fruits figured into the diet and culture of the Salado?
What do you think the odds are that the Carnegia gigantea fruits figured into the diet and culture of the Salado?
- Peterthecactusguy
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:06 pm
- Location: Black Canyon City, AZ
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
MJP,MJP wrote:Interesting and picturesque site.
What do you think the odds are that the Carnegia gigantea fruits figured into the diet and culture of the Salado?
they did. At least a little bit. They also ate O. engelmannii fruits as well. (and possibly the pads not 100% sure of the pads) but they would roll the fruits in sand or gravel to remove the glochids without getting any in their fingers.. (hopefully)
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Absolutely fascinating, as always. I really love these habitat, prehistoric Indian culture threads. Great photos! Thanks, and keep up the great work!
When does the book come out?
When does the book come out?
- Jkwinston
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 1682
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:30 pm
- Location: London UK
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Fabulous shots! A great pleasure to have a look at the A delamateri again. Looking forward to seeing them soon. Jkw
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Been a while since we traveled in this direction, and we found a nice little A. chrysantha collection growing in and along a barely recognizable Salado Indian ruin. Had we not noticed a few potsherds we might have missed it altogether.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Still working on getting our hiking legs under us, today's modest trek features a 6-mile in and out w/1500' elevation gain. Nothing too strenuous, but definitely a good workout! Plenty of water and mud about after a couple rainy days, and some cool crisp air high in the mountains. On the menu is A. chrysantha, A. delamateri, A. toumeyana, Dudleya saxosa, and a stunning Echinocereus that seems intermediate between E. coccineus and E. yavapaiensis, so we aren't sure which. Oddball of the day award goes to A. delemateri bulbils on a damaged stalk. Not sure this has ever been seen before. There are ten bulbils, all firmly attached to each other like a multi-headed single organism.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Continued from previous post...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
I now have it on good authority the Echinocereus pictured in the two prior posts is E. santaritensis.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Up north today, where the elevations are high and temps nice and cool, to visit an impressive Salado pueblo, then a Mogollon pictograph site. Mogollon rock art is very different from Hohokam, Salado, and Sinagua counterparts, so a real treat. There were plenty of terrific Agaves at the Salado pueblo site.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Continued from previous post...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Triple digits hit the Valley today, so we headed north and up to escape the heat. We took a fresh look at some isolated UFO Agaves, which still leave us scratching our heads, and explored the largest A. toumeyana v. bella pop on the planet, growing in the fine company of A. chrysantha, Dudleya, claret cups and more. On our way out, we surveyed one of the larger A. delamateri sites around, and saw first hand that these beautiful Agaves are actually in steep decline.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Continued from previous post...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
Another peek around some old stomping grounds. Sad to see how poorly A. delamateri is faring...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- toditd
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 682
- Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 1:13 pm
- Location: Phoenix Metro
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
The bovine looks absolutely delighted with his glochid covered treat!
- Gee.S
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9568
- Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:42 pm
- Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
- USDA Zone: 9b
- Contact:
Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals
^ Hahaha, yes! We see all kinds of Opuntia cattle have chewed on, but never before caught one in the act.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"