Unknown ailment

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Unknown ailment

Post Number:#1  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:11 pm

I am hoping for a clue regarding a mysterious ailment that has stricken a couple of my indoor-grown seedlings. Is this some sort of fungal infection? Stricken plants are receiving a strong dose of afternoon sun now, while under the grow light.

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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#2  Postby Agavemonger » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:17 pm

Looks like an algal type growth or a fungus. Are you misting these plants a lot?

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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#3  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:20 pm

Thanks. No not misting at all. There are just 3-4 of them like this, and they aren't improving on their own. Fertilizer OD?
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#4  Postby Azuleja » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:22 pm

Do you apply the fertilizer from above? I burned some plants this way so now after I apply, I come back with plain water and give them all a rinse to make sure none sits on the leaves.
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#5  Postby Agavemonger » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:27 pm

I wouldn't think so. Over-fertilization should manifest itself as severely burned tips or root failure and wilting. Perhaps you could pot them up and place outside in shade to see if it goes away with substantially lower humidity.

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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#6  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:28 pm

Oh no, just a few drops in the drinking water sometimes, usually applied with Gatorade-type squeeze bottles.

I'm guessing a little neem oil wouldn't hurt, right?
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#7  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:29 pm

Agavemonger wrote:I wouldn't think so. Over-fertilization should manifest itself as severely burned tips or root failure and wilting. Perhaps you could pot them up and place outside in shade to see if it goes away.

The Monger

Oh I could just rearrange them in their trays to get 'em outta the sun. I'll try that and a little shot of neem oil.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#8  Postby Agavemonger » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:34 pm

Yeah, after a second look, it could be a light sunburn from the combination of too much sun and the L.E.D. lights. I originally didn't Grok that you were saying they were possibly burned from exposure to the sun. I thought you meant you moved them into the sun after the problem was noticed. Indoor seedlings don't usually like that kind of exposure a bit! :red: Especially with no air movement! If the leaves feel warm to the touch, then that is most likely the problem.

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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#9  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:41 pm

That's what I wonder. I get all manner of sunburn here, as you might imagine. Very easy to recognize. But without a damaging dose of heat (warm, not hot), how might overexposure without the burn manifest? Other seedlings similarly exposed are growing right out of their socks, but different species.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#10  Postby Stone Jaguar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Gee, I have seen this in small agaves grown indoors when exposed to sudden changes in exposure, particularly the angle of the exposure. Much more than light intensity, it seems light at low angle coupled with warm background temps produces this basal bleach burn. Worst example I currently have is on a multi headed young eborispina, so even the most devout sun worshipers can get it.

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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#11  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Thanks, good info. I've backed them out of the window, so should see improvement soon.

And not to pick nits, but eborispina is really only a moderate sun worshiper, at best. My damaged seedlings include simplex and an unknown low elevation habitat Agave from central AZ, possibly murpheyi × mckelveyana. In my small experience, pretty much all Agave seedlings appreciate some sun protection.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#12  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:26 pm

Just took a closer look, and it does seem species-dependent, in addition to window dependent. More of the same strangers, more simplex and one pelona. Hopefully, sun angle will become less hazardous before long.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#13  Postby Stone Jaguar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:27 pm

Hmm. Just a personal bias/my two cents, but I never use summer oils (incl. neem) on stem succulents. I have heard horror stories from two US BGs that have in the past. While azidarachtin is - without doubt - a powerful antifeedant in many insect pests, I have never found neem seed oil an effective arthropod pest control. I have used it on and off for almost 17 years in both my countries of residence, with an open mind, on many plant families, wanting it to work, but can't say it does, IME..other than as a rather costly and lightweight "summer oil".

Did find it to be the bomb once to control a nonspecific skin irritation issue on one of my dogs (RIP, Maggie), used as a shampoo in emulsified form. For this I'll forgive its sins as a dud on my plants.

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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#14  Postby Gee.S » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:32 pm

Hahaha, I just thought the poor little seedlings might find it soothing, and it does boast mild anti-fungal properties.

I recently tried it on one of my Sans, to treat a sticky stem situation, and while not as effective as malathion, it eventually did the trick with a whole lot less toxin.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#15  Postby Stone Jaguar » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:43 pm

Huge fan of biorationals and very open to exploring home/hippy remedies but - other than the cinnamon and or cassia BS - find this this biggest disappointment of all. Even more ironic since I did experimental, replicated field and lab trials of raw, fresh leaf extract to control pesticide resistant whitefly in tropical cotton in 1984 or 1985 and was very impressed by the results. The advent of neonics rendered further exploration a bit of a dead end since very effective on whiteflies.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong all these years with ornamentals, but sorta doubt it.
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#16  Postby Gee.S » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:19 pm

So I now believe I misdiagnosed the problem. I am convinced the culprit is light exposure, as significantly more damage has ensued. My first remedy was to shade the window with a blind to prevent direct sun exposure. And that may have helped, but I now believe sun exposure was simply the initial trigger, and not the actual cause. I say that because more damage occurred afterward, after an initial period of relief. The real culprit here is general overexposure to light, primarily the LED lamp.

Lamp instructions indicate 24" x 24" coverage and a recommended distance of 24" - 30". This of course, is for growing weed in mom's basement. But my seedlings are in a window, so I jacked the light up a bit to increase coverage to 24" x 36". My belief now is that I hadn't jacked the light high enough and seedlings were burning from overexposure. I did not understand this could happen, as I've always associated burn with heat. Heat has nothing to do with this, this is overexposure to light.

I now have the light 35" above the top of the plants, and the blind wide open. It is a healthier situation with more sun exposure, as sunlight warms and dries the room, the LED lamp does not. This is still an experiment in progress, I only hope the lamp is high enough now...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#17  Postby Neli » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 am

This is how my DJH got burned.
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Now it has recovered somewhat. This is before
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Desmetiana JH burned
2017-06-27 036 (600x400).jpg (28.13 KiB) Viewed 72 times
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#18  Postby agavegreg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:58 pm

On that A. desmettiana, did the damage show up after a cloudy period following a sunny start to the day?
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#19  Postby Neli » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:40 pm

agavegreg wrote:On that A. desmettiana, did the damage show up after a cloudy period following a sunny start to the day?

Yes. I think it is what they call blisters,. Just found it yesterday in a link from here.
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#20  Postby agavegreg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:46 pm

That type of damage will happen to some of my plants that I take to shows and sales. Just loading them into the back of the truck with a camper shell will do that. I have found that when I keep the soil dry before transporting, then the damage is minimized. I have never had anybody mention plants that I ship bareroot in boxes has arrived with that type of damage.
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Re: Unknown ailment

Post Number:#21  Postby Neli » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:48 pm

agavegreg wrote:That type of damage will happen to some of my plants that I take to shows and sales. Just loading them into the back of the truck with a camper shell will do that. I have found that when I keep the soil dry before transporting, then the damage is minimized. I have never had anybody mention plants that I ship bareroot in boxes has arrived with that type of damage.

I order lots of agaves from USA and other parts of the world, and they travel for a long time, even a month at times, never seen this damage. But this was given to me by a friend. It was in more shaded position before and it happened after I brought it home.
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