Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Agave, Beschorneria, Furcraea, Hesperaloe, Hesperoyucca, Manfreda, Polianthes, Yucca and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.
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Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#1

Post by Gee.S »

This is an interesting and incredibly scenic area, unlike any habitat visited to date. The northern edge of the Mazatzal Mountains goes up beyond Payson, all the way to Pine, where it essentially meets and merges with the Mogollon Rim. The area we ventured into today is several miles south, where high desert has effectively given way to pine forest, but succulent plants still dominate the landscape. It almost seems an unlikely dream world, where cacti, Yucca and Agave thrive in a full-on pine forest. Here we also find Dasylirion, Nolina, Echinocereus, Escobaria and Opuntia in impressive numbers.

There are blue chrysantha, green chrysantha, big chrysantha, and small chrysantha by the tens of thousands here, some in all their glory among rocky outcroppings, others struggling under a dense canopy of juniper and pine. But that is not the dominant Agave in the region. For each A. chrysantha there must be fifty A. toumeyana -- there may literally be millions of them. And as a bonus, a small population of A. parryi has also infiltrated the region.

At this point, I am left to wonder why A. ×arizonica is such a rarity. Different flowering seasons? Different pollinators? There must be some overlap, or we wouldn't see A. ×arizonica at all. So what is it that keeps these populations from producing more hybrids? As you'll see in the photos that follow, it has nothing to do with proximity.
A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. chrysantha × A. parryi
A. chrysantha × A. parryi
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A. parryi
A. parryi
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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Escobaria vivipara
Escobaria vivipara
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
Star 095.JPG (129.86 KiB) Viewed 6155 times
A. toumeyana + Echinocereus
A. toumeyana + Echinocereus
Star 098.JPG (135.38 KiB) Viewed 6155 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the northern Mazatzals

#2

Post by Gee.S »

A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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Star 110.JPG
Star 110.JPG (92.54 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
Star 114.JPG
Star 114.JPG (101.96 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
Star 115.JPG (128.96 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. toumeyana + Echinocereus
A. toumeyana + Echinocereus
Star 120.JPG (160.27 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
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A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
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A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
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A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
Star 155.JPG (145.94 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
Star 157.JPG (199.11 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
Star 166.JPG (166.25 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
Star 171.JPG (152.02 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
E. engelmannii
E. engelmannii
Star 175.JPG (130.24 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. parryi
A. parryi
Star 180.JPG (128.97 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
A. parryi × A. chrysantha
A. parryi × A. chrysantha
Star 184.JPG (131.49 KiB) Viewed 6154 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the northern Mazatzals

#3

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

ok, not on my computer yet, but I will install windows later. I am beat, nice pictures. :)
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#4

Post by Arizona Agave »

Great shots Ron, Retirement is starting off pretty good so far. Thanks for the show. Martin
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#5

Post by Jkwinston »

Fabulous! Thanks Ron. Jkw
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#6

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Wow, some of those large toumeyana are really pretty! I typically picture them scraggly and schotti-ish, but wouldn't mind growing some of these.
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#7

Post by Gee.S »

There is a particularly homely population around Fish Creek that meets your description, but generally, A. toumeyana is a really pretty plant. I prefer it to v. bella as landscape fare, since it's twice the size. I've had a clump in my front yard for a few years now, and it looks a lot like the plants pictured above. And unlike their lookalike A. parviflora, they love full sun.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#8

Post by Gee.S »

Today we headed back up north to explore a couple of new roads. Among today's highlights are a new Indian ruin, an interesting old rock house, tons of A. toumeyana and A. chrysantha, a smattering of A. parryi, and six brand new A. delamateri sites. The Indian ruin is neither Hohokam nor Salado, but Mogollon (pronounced mug-ee-yone). We do not believe any particular domesticate Agaves are associated with this group; they may have been content exploiting the native A. chrysantha and A. parryi populations that grace this forested region. I'm sure there is an interesting history behind the old rock house, but we have been unable to run it down, as yet.

The thing that makes this place so interesting is the unusual convergence of pine forest with desert dwellers. We don't usually think of A. toumeyana and cacti growing under a canopy of pine trees, but here they are, along with the usual bevy of Yucca, Dasylirion, and Nolina.
Mogollon Indian ruin
Mogollon Indian ruin
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Mogollon Indian ruin
Mogollon Indian ruin
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. parryi
A. parryi
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A. parryi
A. parryi
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A. parryi
A. parryi
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana + Echinocereus + Opuntia
A. toumeyana + Echinocereus + Opuntia
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A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
A. toumeyana + A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#9

Post by Gee.S »

Continued from previous post (Post #8)...
A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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Old Rock House
Old Rock House
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Old Rock House
Old Rock House
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Cylindropuntia spinosior
Cylindropuntia spinosior
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Cylindropuntia spinosior
Cylindropuntia spinosior
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. toumeyana
A. toumeyana
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#10

Post by Gee.S »

Continued from previous post (Post #8)...
A. toumeyana + Echinocereus
A. toumeyana + Echinocereus
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A. chrysantha + A. toumeyana
A. chrysantha + A. toumeyana
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. parryi
A. parryi
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A. parryi
A. parryi
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A. parryi
A. parryi
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Mule Deer
Mule Deer
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White-tailed Deer
White-tailed Deer
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Echinocereus
Echinocereus
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#11

Post by KLC »

Aye-karamba Ron, post 9 pic 12 has got to be my favorite yet.
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#12

Post by Gee.S »

Back we went to sniff out some more A. delamateri sites, now that it's been found in the area, and while we might have done better, we'll settle for five new sites. That makes eleven here, and they all surround a Salado pueblo, most within one mile in all different directions. A. chrysantha is also in the area, though not in prodigious numbers. As we have found in other locales where A. delamateri is relatively thick, many of these chrysantha are very delamateri-like in appearance, leaving us to again speculate that Salado may have tinkered with the local Agave population, in addition to planting their own domesticates. Some of these plants may be A. chrysantha × A. delamateri hybrids. We also ran into some deer in two separate spots and made an astonishing find, when a Coatimundi (Nasua narica) ran out onto the road right in front of the Jeep, then disappeared into the brush. Wow! And no, we were not hallucinating, a little online research verified the plausibility of the find. Sadly, this gorgeous creature was gone while I was still fumbling with the camera.

BTW, if you want to see what a real flat tire looks like, scroll on down. :))
White-tailed deer
White-tailed deer
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Echinocereus fasciculatus
Echinocereus fasciculatus
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E. fasciculatus
E. fasciculatus
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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E. bonkerae
E. bonkerae
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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Yucca angustissima
Yucca angustissima
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
Giselle 030.JPG (127.44 KiB) Viewed 5995 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#13

Post by Gee.S »

Continued from previous post (Post #12)...
Dasylirion wheeleri
Dasylirion wheeleri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
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Yucca baccata
Yucca baccata
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Image
Salado Indian pueblo
Image
Salado Indian pueblo
Image
Salado Indian pueblo
Image
Salado Indian pueblo
Oops!
Oops!
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#14

Post by Spination »

Wow, now those are some impressive Dasylirion wheeleri! Too bad you couldn't score the "wheel" from the wheeleri to help with that flat! haha My D. wheeleri, which I've had for 5 years already is a miserable runt compared to those beauties.
Great bunch of pics...too bad the Coatimundi was too quick for the camera. But, shouldn't it have been a Coatituesday? D)) Methinks the elusive creature was a day off. ::wink::
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#15

Post by Gee.S »

I had to check my watch to make sure I wasn't in Hondouras or something! Honestly, I had no idea Coatis were stateside. And this was not one of Arizona's hotspots either, more an intermediate zone. Dasylirion is very common through much of the region we frequent -- so common we generally ignore 'em, but I occasionally snap a pic or two. I'll keep an eye out for some really impressive examples for you and post 'em up.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#16

Post by Spination »

Well, that's news to me too, but apparently 100% true. What an awesome sighting! I was just reading an amazing fact that they are double-jointed and their ankles can rotate 180 degrees allowing them to run down a tree trunk head first. Now that would be an awesome sight! :o
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#17

Post by Agavemonger »

Are you sure you didn't see a Ring-Tailed Cat?

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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#18

Post by Gee.S »

Quite sure, it was far too large. At first glance, I thought it might be a raccoon (OK, that was after I decided it wasn't a wolverine), not that I had ever seen a raccoon in AZ either, but there was no prominent banding on the tail. And I've certainly never heard tail (sic) of ringtails plodding across dirt roads in broad daylight. Coatis are diurnal, ringtails and raccoons are not.

Looked like this.

Image
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#19

Post by Geoff »

That's a Coati Mundi.. nice shot
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#20

Post by Gee.S »

More roads to explore, we're starting to like this place. Six more new A. delamateri sites today, along with a few intermediates so difficult to discern, we had to study photos to positively identify (and by positively, I only mean 'delamateri or not delamateri'). So we're now up to 17 sites surrounding the Salado pueblo. We're still not done in here, there are a lot a roads. And we're still hoping to spot A. toumeyana somewhere. Nothing yet, but this diminutive Agave absolutely swarms certain areas just south and north of here.

Fun stuff with a new camera lens today, which I used as my primary in order to learn the ropes. It isn't quite as sharp as my faster lenses but offers quality 250mm zoom, so we were digging on some great long shots.
A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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Moo
Moo
Giselle_2 003.JPG (89.41 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
Echinocereus
Echinocereus
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Site of the Salado pueblo
Site of the Salado pueblo
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Site of the Salado pueblo
Site of the Salado pueblo
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Echinocereus
Echinocereus
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A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
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A. delamateri
A. delamateri
Giselle_2 031.JPG (145.42 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
A. delamateri
A. delamateri
Giselle_2 033.JPG (163.85 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
A. delamateri
A. delamateri
Giselle_2 057.JPG (189.39 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
Giselle_2 068.JPG (168.39 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
A. delamateri
A. delamateri
Giselle_2 081.JPG (158.26 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
Possible hybrid -- we've seen this same apparently sterile Agave at Sierra Ancha
Possible hybrid -- we've seen this same apparently sterile Agave at Sierra Ancha
Giselle_2 094.JPG (151.85 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
Yucca angustissima + Opuntia engelmannii
Yucca angustissima + Opuntia engelmannii
Giselle_2 097.JPG (172.74 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
A. delamateri
A. delamateri
Giselle_2 098.JPG (197.01 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
A. delamateri
A. delamateri
Giselle_2 121.JPG (158.69 KiB) Viewed 5955 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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MsWhipplei
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#21

Post by MsWhipplei »

Post #20, photo 11 of that awesome chrysantha against the red soil -- you are killing me, here :shock:
Drop-dead gorgeous. What a terrific shot!
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Gee.S
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#22

Post by Gee.S »

Thanks! That's a big plant, perhaps 5' across, and growing sideways along a vertical cliff facing the road. It certainly caught my eye!
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Spination
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#23

Post by Spination »

That chrysantha shot in pic 11 is amazing. Really nice shot from directly above. Good one!

Edit:
LOL, Luisa...I just saw you like that one too. Great minds think alike, heh. D))
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Gee.S
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Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#24

Post by Gee.S »

Same plant from further away, so you can appreciate the backdrop a little better...
A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha
Giselle_2 067.JPG (139.07 KiB) Viewed 5946 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Spination
Ready to Bolt
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
Location: Sonoma, Ca.

Re: Habitat: Into the Northern Mazatzals

#25

Post by Spination »

It has a surreal appearance, like a green sunburst. The banding/concentric circles really add to the imagery. That's a 5 star agave (out of 5) if I ever saw one.
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