Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Agave, Beschorneria, Furcraea, Hesperaloe, Hesperoyucca, Manfreda, Polianthes, Yucca and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.
A. verdensis -- check out the marginals on this bad boy!
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A. parviflora seedlings sport very long, narrow leaves
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A. sobria 'Turtle Teeth'. Only 1 of 60 seeds germinated but this is by a fair margin, the fastest grower. Note the third leaf already coming
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A. yavapaiensis
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A. 'Celsii Nova' (left) and A. chrysantha × murpheyi. Note the brand new seedling popping up right next to the other, which is 6 weeks old
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A. deserti v. simplex
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A. deserti v. simplex
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Thanks guys, in my current condition, this is the only kind of gardening I can manage.
Earlier in this thread, I had posted some concerns about Nova seedlings, and believe I am gaining on the issue. Unlike the other six seed types I planted, Nova seems very particular about planting depth. Too deep, and it comes up with first leaf already intact, if it comes up at all. Too shallow, and initial leaves form high off the substrate. What I first thought a weakness/precursor to death is simply the top of the initial root emerging up to a cm above the surface. I assume this is not ideal, but seems easily remedied by the application of additional media. Having so little experience in this arena, I have no notion how common this is, but it is not an issue with any of my other seedlings. Nova seed is very much on the small side, btw.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
It is now about 8 weeks since the first seedlings started emerging. At what point should I start curtailing use of the cover? A couple of the seedlings are only about 2 weeks old, but most are working on second leaves, soon to be third. To reiterate my setup, tray is on a thermostatically controlled heat mat, and I leave the light on 17 hours per day.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
In my experience germinated plants that old don't need it anymore.
Sometimes removal improves/induces germination.
Case in point. Four species from Paul were sown on 1/3/15, asperrima and nickelsiae from the hill outside Saltillo where x nigra/sharkskin/saltilloensis occurs, along with his recent collections of a compact form of D. glaucophyllum and an unknown Manfreda species.
At 4 weeks the germination rate for the:
Manfreda is nearly 100%
asperrima and nickelsiae have identical germination rates (~75%), with daily germination coinciding nearly identically -- interesting.
D. glaucophyllum was 0%.
While I could have left the hood on a bit longer, I thought a change was needed to try and see if conditions were suppressing germination of the Dasylirion.
Two days with no hood and first Dasylirion has germinated.
Possibly coincidence, IDK. We'll see what happens next.
This is by way of saying that the hood is just another environmental variable that can be manipulated like anything that has an effect on germination, so no harm in tinkering with it. As Keith has pointed out, in addition to affecting humidity and moisture, the hood affects UV radiation penetration, so a lot changes when removed.
Given my experience I would remove the hood prior to 8 weeks considering the germination rate, maturity, and general robust condition of your plants.
Your comments about germinating Dasylirion are interesting, and particularly because at the end of last summer I tried to germinate a few seeds I had in possession. My approach was the very opposite of the 'Gees formula', they were simply thrown in two pots and covered with soil, and left in a corner of the greenhouse. If my memory serves me right, they germinated after 5 to six weeks, and are presently still there, where I maintain a minimum temperature of around 6C/42F. From my limited experience, I believe they behave very differently from Agaves, and probably need much more of a natural environment during germination. I must state that this is my first attempt at germinating Dasylirion seeds, as they are not the kind of succulents I normally grow. But observing the effortless way the seedlings are progressing, I simply think are better off being left alone, without any extra fussing. Jkw
Update pics. I've just notices a couple seedlings with dark/dying leaves -- I should probably water less. I would have cut back more but for the new A. chrysantha seedlings that recently popped up.
A. sobria 'Turtle Teeth', my only one out of sixty seeds planted
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A. 'Celsii Nova' (left) + A. chrysantha x murpheyi
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A. yavapaiensis (left) + A. desert v. simplex
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New gnarly A. chrysantha seedlings. 11/12 seeds germinated
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Let's see, buncha weird domestic stuff, mostly....
A. 'Celsii Nova'
A. chrysantha
A. chrysantha × murpheyi
A. deserti
A. deserti v. simplex
A. desmettiana × pelona
A. murpheyi
A. parviflora
A. pelona
A. 'Proto-simplex'
A. sobria 'Turtle Teeth'
A. stricta
A. verdensis
A. yavapaiensis
A. utahensis
A. species (small unknown aff. mckelveyana growing in central AZ)
The two lower cells are more recent -- A. utahensis v. nevadensis, and A. species (aff. simplex from Providence Mountains in CA).
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
With my first seed batch having been moved toward its next stage of development and out of the seedling tray, I've just started a new batch. Only using half the cells for the time being, and I thought it would be educational to try my hand at some non-Agaves as well.
This batch includes:
A. 'Celsii Nova' × A. deserti v. simplex
A. 'Celsii Nova' × A. diformis
A. 'Celsii Nova' × A. angustifolia
A. mckelveyana × A. utahensis
A. utahensis ssp. kaibabensis
A. lophantha
Nolina parryi ssp. wolfii
Ferocactus pilosus
Pachycereus schottii
Hesperaloe parviflora
On another note, I've moved my very first seedling out of doors, fingers crossed!
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Tell you what, these little guys are running riot under this LED lamp in front of a window. I'm guessing they'll have some real issues transitioning to life outdoors, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Seedlings are now at ten months.
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Seedlings will be one year old in about three weeks. Over the next year, leaves should thicken to the point that I can try a few outside, and more should start exhibiting typical species characteristics. My big fear is that I'll put a few outside and they're all dead within three days. That is what's happened to most young non-AZ greenhouse grown Agaves I've tried, and I don't have facilities in my home to keep them indoors for 3 or 4 years when they would stand a better chance.
My golden A. 'Celsii Nova' looks like no other
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A. desmettiana (hybrid?) + A. sobria 'Turtle Teeth'
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A. chrysantha
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A. stricta
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A. kerchovei + my largest A. pelona seedling (leaves at 5 cm)
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More A. pelona
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A. utahensis
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A. ocahui pup, there are a few more outside
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A. delamateri bulbils
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A. deserti v. simplex
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A. murpheyi + more A. pelona
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
They're looking really great. Hopefully most, if not all of them, can be successfully acclimated with time? In their habitats I imagine many of them would be growing with protection.
See the A. delamateri bulbils? Young Agaves tend to look more like that in the great outdoors. In addition to surviving low humidity, heat and sun, indoor grown seedlings also have to survive being eaten. Small rodents and insects sniff out tender growth and go straight for it.
I had an 18-month old A. sobria I put outside in a shady spot a couple months ago. All leaves except one desiccated from low humidity in less than a week, and the remaining leaf was eaten a couple days later, along with the core being chewed to the ground. But it's still alive. A partial leaf has since opened and it's pretty thick and tough, so it has a chance. That is probably best case scenario for a lot of these guys. All or most foliage dies but the plant survives to produce better adapted new growth. It's a tough balancing act to pull off, but it can be done.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Hmm, you're right. That's exactly what happens when we put vegetable seedlings in the garden. We've started putting mesh row covers over some of them until they get to sufficient size to better survive minor attacks. White row covers for insects and then bird mesh for rabbits and squirrels. The gophers attack from below of course and sometimes we lose the battle in the end.
When my A. ovatifolia seedlings take their first steps outside I think I'll find some way to mesh them in for a bit. The dessication is a new one. Would it be crazy to create a humidity zone with misters?
Lack of humidity may not be a problem for you, unless you're in Borrego Springs or Tecopa or some such. It is dry, dry, dry here with humidity often under 10%.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Your seedlings are looking great. I'm ramping up a production area for seedlings, though right now I do have a bunch of bulbils coming along. A friend gave me two dozen Agave vilmoriniana 'Stained Glass' bulbils, plus some regular A. vilmoriniana.
I'd love some A. delamateri bulbils if you ever come across them again. It's at the top of my wish list; though I've seen other domesticates for sale, no one seems to sell A. delamateri (or A. phillipsiana & A. yavapaiensis), but delamateri seems like the most beautiful one to me...
I'll be looking to find homes for these bulbil guys in a few months. I really don't expect to find more, since delamateri bulbils have never been seen before.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
I bet you could move some of the larger ones outside this year. Why not try a few of the less precious ones now? It's cool, relatively humid, and we've got a long stretch of nice warmish days ahead.
Because the leaves are all paper thin. I'm going to have to wait until some start producing normal leaves, which should happen over the course of the next year. The A. desmettiana seedlings are the only ones I have that are producing close to normal leaves (6" long!)
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
