Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Agave, Beschorneria, Furcraea, Hesperaloe, Hesperoyucca, Manfreda, Polianthes, Yucca and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.
We entered a brand new area today, the Blackjack Mountains, southeast of Sierra Ancha and bordering on an Apache Indian Reservation. We had previously found A. delamateri and an extensive area dominated by A. chrysantha × A. parryi hybrids just a few short miles west in the Apache Hills. While we didn't find A. delamateri today, we did find some apparent delamateri-introgressed A. chrysantha, along with a few other Agaves we cannot readily identify. These may be domesticate, or aberrant forms of A. chrysantha. Blooms should tell the tale once available for inspection.
We were also fortunate enough to come across previously unknown populations of Agave toumeyana and Cylindropuntia versicolor, which may expand the known range of each. And to cap it off, we also found A. parryi and some A. chrysantha × A. parryi hybrids, in addition to what presents as a Salado Indian hilltop outpost. Fun day!
A. delamateri-like A. chrysantha
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Interesting bunch of identical A.chrysantha-like clones
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Close-up, see above
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We just don't know Pic 1
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We just don't know Pic 2
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We just don't know Pic 3
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Salado pueblo
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Salado pueblo
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Potsherds
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Salado pueblo
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Opuntia engelmannii
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Cylindropuntia versicolor
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A. chrysantha
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C. versicolor × C. leptocaulis
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C. versicolor
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A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
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A. toumeyana
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
And back to sniff around some more. On our first visit we found clear indications of A. delamateri genetic material in some apparent A. chrysantha hybrids, but were unable to locate the source. Today, we found four previously unknown, happy, healthy A. delamateri sites. We also found a few strangers of the same apparent stripe as the heavily cross-banded plants found last week, and some really interesting cacti. These include a crested Cylindropuntia spinosior (very, very rare) and an apparently viable C. spinosior × leptocaulis colony of perhaps 50 plants, although we were unable to find any C. leptocaulis in the entire range. We have found occasional hybrids like this before, but always sterile, individual plants. This bunch is heavily seed-laden and spreading across the area.
See Post 1; Pics 4, 5, 6
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See Post 1; Pics 4, 5, 6
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha, ferruginous in bud. We have never seen this before, and probably suggests some manner of hanky-panky.
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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See Post 1; Pics 4, 5, 6
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C. spinosior × leptocaulis (?)
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C. spinosior × leptocaulis (?)
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C. spinosior × leptocaulis (?)
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Enormous C. spinosior
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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C. spinosior crest
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C. acanthocarpa
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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The road ahead
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A. chrysantha
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The Salt River
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A. delamateri (or facsimile thereof)
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A. delamateri
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Thanks kindly Azul, it was a wonderful day, and the road was really pleasant. In fact, the scene in 'The road ahead' pic sorta reminded me of a drawing from a children's book.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
And back again for a third and final installment of our initial investigation of the area. This was a little different area today, absolutely dominated at lower elevations by untold numbers of A. chrysantha and by A. chrysantha × A. parryi as we traveled through higher elevations. Of course, A. parryi was also around, but very spotty, though parryi bloom stalks were definitely the eye candy of the day. Ultimately, as we have seen elsewhere, habitat here at 4500' - 5300' seems ideal for neither chrysantha nor parryi, but rather their hybrid progeny -- intermediate plants for an intermediate zone. On our way out, we happened across another small A. delamateri site. Unlike our previous forays into the area, today's road was an absolute dumpster fire of tense uncertainty. Glad we made it back to civilization.
A. chrysantha, doing a pretty fair A. palmeri impersonation
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We found a couple of these profusely offsetting, but small A. chrysantha pops in the flats
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A. chrysantha × A. parryi
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A. chrysantha × A. parryi -- we find these bright glowing green intermediates wherever these two hook up
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Ouch, mitey upsetting find here....
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A. chrysantha × A. parryi
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A. chrysantha × A. parryi
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Enormous Yucca baccata fruit
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A. parryi pop, along a gentle slope
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Just a few feet from the parryi patch...
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A. chrysantha × A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. chrysantha
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A. delamateri
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
One last time to Blackjack for this year to check a few blooms. This was way more adventure than anticipated, because the region had gotten slammed by monsoon storms last night, and it was actually raining lightly the entire time out in the field. Suffice to say you don't want to try negotiating tilty ledge roads in mud with mud-blocked tires. I'll try to knock 30-40 pounds of caked dirt off the Jeep this weekend.
A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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A. chrysantha, undoubtedly introgressed with delamateri. Note how the lower seed pods have almost immediately dropped off, just like the sterile delamateri
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Hawk
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Today we inched a little further north and east, getting closer to the White Mountains. Nothing but A. parryi today, and it was there in force.
A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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Erm wait, what Opuntia is this?
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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A. parryi
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
A visit to some new terrain about 10 miles NE of Blackjack, and the day's highlight was a fiercely fortified Salado hilltop pueblo at 5200'. We found some A. parryi on the way in, and a new A. delamateri site on the way out.
A. parryi
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View from the pueblo
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Potsherds
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Salado pueblo
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Breathtaking view of US 60 and the Salt River from the pueblo
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Salado pueblo
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A. parryi, just below the pueblo
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Salado pueblo
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Salado pueblo
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A. delamateri
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A. delamateri
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Back to Blackjack to visit a third Salado ruin. On the way out, we surveyed an unusual Agave we had previously found. We don't know if this is an unusual chrysantha cultivar or a potential new taxon, but there are quite a few of them at at least two different sites. These small Agaves are heavily banded with wicked marginals and extremely thin, pliable leaves. We'll refer to this Agave as A. 'chrysbanda' until we're able to clarify. There are other strange Agaves in the area as well. On the way home, we stopped at four more murpheyi sites. Still no bloomers. Sigh...
A. chrysantha
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Salado pueblo
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Salado pueblo
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Salado pueblo
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Salado pueblo
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A. 'chrysbanda' #1
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A. 'chrysbanda' #2, 3, 4
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A. chrysantha w/apparent parryi introgression
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A. chrysantha ?
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A. chrysantha ?
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Wicked chrys/parryi hybrid was lightly variegated. Had already bloomed w/no offsets.
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Yucca elata
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A. 'chrysbanda' #5
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A. murpheyi
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A. murpheyi
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Incredibly rare A. murpheyi × A. delamateri hybrids driven to near extinction by drought and Agave mite
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A. murpheyi
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A. murpheyi
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Picture #027 'chrysbanda' #1 is a Holy Crap! kind of find.
Do you suspect, or have you ever suspected that the mite infestations you are seeing in habitat could actually have originated from the mite problems in the nursery trade?
Yeah, pretty bad-ass, eh? How about this? This parryi-like Agave had about 20 leaves with at least one or two stripes, but look at the spines!
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Now here is a close-up of A. 'chrysbanda' spines. They're all like this. And they're all pretty small, no more than 18" across.
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Dunno where mites came from. We've found them at Organ Pipe, Verde Valley, Mazatzals, Sierra Ancha, and not too far from you near Tonopah. They're bad in the Verde Valley, and may have the potential to drive one or more of the domesticates there to extinction.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Very cool. Re: chrysbanda/unknown, what do you do now Gee? Return and wait for a bloom to get clues as to parentage? The banding and stressed color is something else.
Yeah, that would be the plan, but there are so many cattle around, we may never get the opportunity.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
The Agave "chrysbanda" are very unusual and wildly attractive plants in their own way.
The toothy leaf margins are similar to a few of my Agave wocomahi grown from seed from Basaseachic and Moris, Chihuahua.
Your "chrysbanda" and these wocomahi somehow call to mind "Boris The Animal" in Men in Black III.
Any chance you could get permission to relocate a plant to a bonafide research facility/botanic garden for safe observation - as Gentry did at his ranch in Murietta?
Attachments
unusually toothsome Agave wocomahi
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No possibility of a permit no. DNA analysis would only be considered after blooms suggest a possible taxon. There's a pretty long line of stuff waiting for analysis and limited funds. For now, I fear the cows are holding a trump card.
Honestly, there are so many strange Agaves there, and the site is really isolated. It is probably a domesticate site, but plants could all be various voodoo hybrids from local stock.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Today we hiked another ruin sitting atop an intriguing little plateau about 10 miles south of Blackjack. Lots of A. chrysantha and chrysantha-like Agaves about, and an interesting variety of forms. We found what appears to be a feral americana-like Agave in the area, and a grand total of two A. parryi plants, adding their genes to the local brew. There may have been domesticates around at one time, as Agaves very near the ruin have that domesticate-introgressed look, but if so, these are long gone now. Perhaps the most interesting finds were a few very large mortars, which would have been used for processing grain, and an apparent domesticate Ephedra field atop the mesa. Now that was something new.
Unknown
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A. americana × A. chrysantha ?
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Dasylirion wheeleri mop head
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha
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A. chrysantha -- nearly spineless form
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A. parryi
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Salado defensive wall
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Large mortar
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Salado pueblo
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Ephedra sp.
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Ephedra sp.
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Mite-infested A. chrysantha
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Classic A. chrysantha × A. parryi
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
