Growing Sans Collection

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Steph115
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#51

Post by Steph115 »

These are my absolute favorite plants to watch right now. I picked one up about a month ago, then another recently. First was shipped bare-root. I had it outside on my east-facing porch initially because the seller was growing it in full sun, but I moved it inside when the leaves started to wrinkle a bit and there was no sign of root development. I figure morning sun might even have been too much for a bare-rooted plant. I also re-potted it in a better-draining mix (roughly equal parts coconut fiber, perlite, and cactus soil). I wanted to go as well-draining as possible with this species since I read that the stilts are very prone to rot.

Now it's having rapid growth of at least one of its stilt roots (the one that was initially above the soil surface). The leaves are still wrinkled & the rosette hasn't developed at all, but I'm hoping that the absorptive roots will follow shortly. I've also heard that 1-2 leaves/year is pretty typical with these guys, so I'm trying not to watch the grass grow too much. I was thinking about acclimating it to outside, but Brooks seeing how gorgeous your plant looks as an indoor specimen is making me reconsider. If it stays happy in my greenhouse window, I may just keep it there.

My second one I picked up just recently. What's interesting to me is the difference in the morphologies of the plants. My first one is strikingly blue, with long leaves. My second one is much greener with shorter leaves. The second also has more numerous leaves, which makes me think it's significantly older than the first. Not sure if the first one is etiolated or if this represents variation within the species. My first seller also told me that these plants tend to "bulk up" before pupping - which makes me think my second one might pup before the first. For scale, the second is in a 4-inch container while the first is in a 10 inch container.

I gotta tell you, seeing the aerial root go from dormant to growing was one of the coolest things ever. In the first couple days after it started, it probably grew 0.5-1 cm per day, easily.
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Sansevieria pinguicula #1
Sansevieria pinguicula #1
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Sansevieria pinguicula #1 - aerial root growth
Sansevieria pinguicula #1 - aerial root growth
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Sansevieria pinguicula #1
Sansevieria pinguicula #1
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Sansevieria pinguicula #2
Sansevieria pinguicula #2
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Brooksphilly
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#52

Post by Brooksphilly »

Steph, I agree. They are such (albeit very slow) fun to watch. My experience has been that they take about a year in a new environment to really get going. Just about when I have forgotten about them, they take off (which is like one small pup) in the spring. I'm told they are very rot prone, but I have never had one rot. I water as I would any sans. In the growing season every week or two, in winter very rarely. They love windowsill culture and are especially good for a hot afternoon window.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#53

Post by Steph115 »

Brooks, that's great to know. Thanks for your insight! I think if I lived somewhere that didn't get as cold as Dallas in the winter, I'd brave it outside. I feel they wouldn't have any problem with the intensity of the Dallas sun given their natural habitat in Kenya, but subjecting them to the yearly move indoor/outdoor seems like it could be more trouble than it's worth. Plus if they never get full sun they'll never miss it, right? =P
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#54

Post by Gee.S »

Two new additions to the Sans nest. BTW, I had a conversation with the fellow at Arid Lands responsible for their enormous Sans collection. He has been to Africa collecting five times, and AL's stock is a direct result of those collecting activities.
Patagonia 037.JPG
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#55

Post by Spination »

Awesome! I like the info too regarding the African Sansevieria Safaris. Arid features from their online catalog alone the largest selection available for sale of Sans I'm aware of in the U.S., and I guess that explains it. Very cool.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#56

Post by Gee.S »

Oh, and remember the Int'l Sansevieria Society link I had posted up earlier? This fellow says the club has now moved from UK to Tucson, and he is apparently at or near the center of it. Dunno about that, nothing of this on their website... He let me have that S. ehrenbergii for $25, which I think is pretty good.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#57

Post by Steph115 »

Nice acquisitions Gee! Ehrenbergii has been on my radar recently as well. What is the other? Looks a little different from other sans I've seen.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#58

Post by Gee.S »

Thanks Steph! The other is S. ballyi, another Sans I've long admired.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#59

Post by Spination »

I find the distinctions between S. ballyi, S. bella, and S. suffruticosa very confusing. All are very similar in general appearance, and all seem to grow long stolons producing propagates from the base of the stem. Other than coloring, cross-banding, and exact geographical origin, I can't really see much difference. Well, perhaps the channeling too which does also change with maturity (decreasing). Oh, and all from Kenya. Add to the confusion cultivars like S. bella 'Mutomo', and S. suffruticosa 'Frosty Spears', with more subtle than not (IMO) differences. Again, as with several other species too, there is the additional issue of juvenile forms differing from mature forms.

Anyway, to compare with Ron's ballyi, here are my bella (Mutomo) and suffruticosa (Frosty Spears), both early (juvenile) and later (more maturing).

This shot is excellent because one can see bella in the foreground with suffruticosa behind, and how similar they look when smaller.
2015 04 21 Sans bella Mutomo a.jpg
2015 04 21 Sans bella Mutomo a.jpg (85.51 KiB) Viewed 4886 times
bella today. To date anyway, I don't think these form fans, but I could find out differently in the years to follow.
2017 08 30 Sansevieria bella Mutomo b.jpg
2017 08 30 Sansevieria bella Mutomo b.jpg (133.73 KiB) Viewed 4886 times
Stolons with new rosettes, and then a continuation of stolons from the new maturing rosettes to form new rosettes... a chain of sorts! Very cool how the original plant is the hub of an outward spreading collection of rosettes, reaching farther and farther out from the center.
2017 08 30 Sansevieria bella Mutomo a.jpg
2017 08 30 Sansevieria bella Mutomo a.jpg (119.69 KiB) Viewed 4886 times
suffruticosa today. This plant is interesting in that these are known to form fans when mature. Mine was, and unfortunately, I moved it to a new location with a different orientation to the sun. There is virtually no information out there about this, and I had no idea what was going to happen after I moved it. The new leaves are now forming along a different vertical plane. Due to this experience, I believe that it's quite possible that the fan formation in certain species prone to this arrangement occurs as a strategy to orient according to the sun, to maximize the capture of sunlight on the leaves. As this plant matures more, the new fan formation along it's new plane should confirm my suspicion. Anyway, it started out as a rosette, began a fan along one plane, and now appears to be continuing the fan development along a new plane in relation to the sun (or so I believe).
2017 08 30 Sansevieria suffruticosa Frosty Spears a.jpg
2017 08 30 Sansevieria suffruticosa Frosty Spears a.jpg (414.58 KiB) Viewed 4886 times
Stolon City, as with bella
2017 08 30 Sansevieria suffruticosa Frosty Spears b.jpg
2017 08 30 Sansevieria suffruticosa Frosty Spears b.jpg (182.33 KiB) Viewed 4886 times
S. cylindrica is an easier one to solve, since it differs from the other 3 in at least method of propagation - rhizomes rather than stolons.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#60

Post by Spination »

Any chance for some close-ups and overhead shot of your S. ballyi? After noticing and marveling at the stolon coming out mid-plant, I referred back to The Splendid Sansevieria, and the pictured example has stolons coming out from the base, just like my S. bella and S. suffruticosa. Then, I was looking at the leaves and overall look of your plant - which also looks off. Interesting too, is my S. francisii has that same type of stolon coming out of the stem higher up on the plant. I'm not suggesting that your plant is S. francisii (it's not), but some of the features remind me of it (could it be a hybrid?). Looks very interesting and I think deserves closer examination.

I did look at Arid's online photo and description, which looks like your plant, but their description states some sort of mix ("endpoint in the continuum") of features between S. suffruticosa and S. gracilis, and definitely doesn't really match the example or description depicted in Chaninian's book. If nothing else, it would be a good exercise trying to figure it out, if that's possible.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#61

Post by Spination »

Just wanted to show with a fresh pic the stolon behavior I refer to with my S. francisii...
2017 08 31 Sansevieria francissi a.jpg
2017 08 31 Sansevieria francissi a.jpg (107.78 KiB) Viewed 4872 times
Also, Chahinian's description states # of leaves: 6-10 (for ballyi). The Arid plant that you got looks to have a lot more than that, and a stacking behavior (leaves keep stacking higher and higher) reminiscent of S. francisii...
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#62

Post by Gee.S »

Sure, I can post a couple pics later. In the meantime, just thought I'd mention that I found pics of similar plants in Google Pic. And remember, the fellow I bought them from actually collected them. He had a long tale of how my S. ehrenbergii is actually a new closely related species (can't recall the name), but was pretty ho-hom about the S. ballyi.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#63

Post by Spination »

I'm about ready to head out the door myself. Just wanted to mention, it's not at all inconceivable that The Splendid Sansevieria info is flawed. I wouldn't think so, but I'm not going to close my mind and automatically assume there couldn't be an error. Just something interesting to investigate, try to figure out, and hopefully learn something in the process.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#64

Post by Gee.S »

In truth, that book was not really all that well received from what I've read, and does have numerous reported errors. That said, I just found one (unbelievable, been looking for two years!) and plopped down $125 for it. ::roll::

I eagerly await my Sans Club DVD. Juan C is/was part of that club, and I imagine all manner of terrific info there.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#65

Post by Gee.S »

New S. ballyi pics, 4" container. Look closely, this bad boy has some exposed roots (stilt roots?).
Sansevieria ballyi
Sansevieria ballyi
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Sansevieria ballyi
Sansevieria ballyi
Sans_Sans 007.JPG (248.93 KiB) Viewed 4854 times
Sansevieria ballyi
Sansevieria ballyi
Sans_Sans 010.JPG (232.97 KiB) Viewed 4854 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#66

Post by Spination »

Well, to be fair also... while there may well be errors, I have to take some of the criticism online with a grain of salt - given that a fair amount of it comes from one certain know-it-all individual (translation - idiot) who was on a crusade to dispute and discredit both Juan Chahinian and others at every opportunity, in order to pump up his own inflated image of himself. It got so bad, JC posted a rather amusing open letter online to the individual (initials S. J. ).
http://git.net/ml/plants.sansevieria.co ... 00171.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I myself had a deusy of an argument with S.J. over back on XW on more than one occasion, and found him to be a truly antagonistic and arrogant (and not nearly as smart as he thinks he is) fellow. So, my own personal bias is that I'll lean towards Juan Chaninian's knowledge and expertise regarding Sansevieria, and figure S.J. to be not much more than a clown.

Thanks for the pics - have to head out again, but I intend to study and compare them with anything similar in J.C.'s book, and compare online stuff too (for what it's worth, because Google images are notoriously full of erroneous info).
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#67

Post by Gee.S »

Well that's fun! Kinduva Sans KG eh? On the other side a Sans Bible penned by JC himself. Whooda figured?

Anyways, stuff I read was critical, but not biting. Some taxonomic errors, too many photos of juvenile plants, not enough mature habitat plants, organization, stuff like that. Nothing written by Beelzansevieriabub. Best book out there for sure, just some disappointed folks hoping for a more comprehensive text.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#68

Post by Spination »

I agree in that I would have hoped for something of a more definitive work. But, there's really nothing else out there in it's category, and a much needed update from Brown circa 1914. I love Hermine Stover's publication, as it's great for the beginner, and very amusing as well. She has a very funny writing style, worth the read alone. Yup, juvenile vs mature, habitat vs collection photos...etc. I would imagine that a very serious undertaking the likes of which are available for Echeveria, Agave, Aloe... would be very difficult. And, I think the real issue is...would it sell the copies to pay for itself? Sans are still rather obscure, and not nearly mainstream enough to make writing a tome a profitable enterprise, let alone even paying for itself. At least, that's my hunch.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#69

Post by Gee.S »

Spination wrote:Any chance for some close-ups and overhead shot of your S. ballyi? After noticing and marveling at the stolon coming out mid-plant, I referred back to The Splendid Sansevieria, and the pictured example has stolons coming out from the base, just like my S. bella and S. suffruticosa. Then, I was looking at the leaves and overall look of your plant - which also looks off. Interesting too, is my S. francisii has that same type of stolon coming out of the stem higher up on the plant. I'm not suggesting that your plant is S. francisii (it's not), but some of the features remind me of it (could it be a hybrid?). Looks very interesting and I think deserves closer examination.

I did look at Arid's online photo and description, which looks like your plant, but their description states some sort of mix ("endpoint in the continuum") of features between S. suffruticosa and S. gracilis, and definitely doesn't really match the example or description depicted in Chaninian's book. If nothing else, it would be a good exercise trying to figure it out, if that's possible.
There is a taxonomic treatment of the S. suffruticosa group in the July 2007 journal. The key states:
I. Plants usually small, not becoming columnar; floral
tube 18 – 22 mm long ............................Sansevieria ballyi
(including Sans. Bally 12681 and Sans. ‘Minnie’) [Kenya]
So ten years old, but that would seem to exclude my columnar Sans as S. ballyi. No clue, no species in the article seems a good fit.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#70

Post by Gee.S »

So my newest Sans makes for a striking addition to the outdoor table. Anyone wants to eat outside at our house, they had better like salad.
Table 003.JPG
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I was actually standing on this bench to snap the photo above. On it is a 17" planter, in which I will relocate the S. pinguicula, the Huernia (bottom center), a tiny little clumping Dyckia, and one more Sans, perhaps the S. elliptica. The idea is to give these guys a little room to spread their wings. If it goes well, I can add a second container to the bench.
Table 006.JPG
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#71

Post by Spination »

The bench is awesome. OK, the plants are pretty nice too. ::wink::
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#72

Post by Steph115 »

S. ehrenbergii is certainly striking out there. Looks much bluer to me in the outside lighting than in the first photos you posted. Looks like your bravery in relocating it will pay off! If you were to see sunburn on it, any idea how long it would take to show up? I know you & Spiny mentioned that it can be delayed and I'd been curious just how delayed signs of sunburn can be.

Looking forward to seeing your mixed pot. I've never really experimented with that except with the more commercial succulents (echeverias, sedum, etc).
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#73

Post by Gee.S »

Thanks Steph, S. ehrenbergii draws me right in every time I look at the table. Like you I have only seen burn on thin-leafed Sans, but sincerely doubt others are immune. I don't know about burn being delayed, but can verify that it happens without warning.

Here is an example. This Sansevieria elliptica 'Horwood' (no idea if that is actually accepted taxon) was near dead/dormant for three years when I gave it some badly needed attention. A few months later, it rewarded me with beautiful new twin leaves. As you can see, one of the leaves burnt a bit. I was keeping a close eye on it, but.... If you look closely, you'll see that some of the burn is partially healed, and in comparing to the other leaf, you'll note that both continued with an identical growth rate, but the clean leaf is now sprouting another new leaf, while the other is not. Dunno what all that means really, I just thought it was interesting.
Sans burn 002.JPG
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#74

Post by Gee.S »

Steph115 wrote:S. ehrenbergii is certainly striking out there. Looks much bluer to me in the outside lighting than in the first photos you posted. Looks like your bravery in relocating it will pay off! If you were to see sunburn on it, any idea how long it would take to show up? I know you & Spiny mentioned that it can be delayed and I'd been curious just how delayed signs of sunburn can be.

Looking forward to seeing your mixed pot. I've never really experimented with that except with the more commercial succulents (echeverias, sedum, etc).
So I just took a close look at the S. ehrenbergii, and one short stubby lower leaf is yellowing badly toward the center. I rotated the plant a bit and will wait to see if it greens back up.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#75

Post by Steph115 »

Hmm curious. If it is sunburn, I'm glad the lower leaf is taking one for the team / being the canary in the coal mine.
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