Growing Sans Collection

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Beaucarnea, Calibanus, Cordyline, Dasylirion, Dracaena, Nolina, Sansevieria and related species.

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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#26

Post by Spination »

I'll check about the pests, and report back.

For now, I wanted to address the growth rates. I have found highly interesting the variance in growth rates between my 3 different variegated S. arborescens. 2 have been very slow growing, and one would logically surmise it's because they're variegated. However, the other one is growing much along the lines of yours. Here's a pic late 2015 of my largest, about 2 months after I got it, with little change in size to that point.
2015 11 21 Sans arborescens b.JPG
2015 11 21 Sans arborescens b.JPG (111.57 KiB) Viewed 5236 times
And here it is today, a year and a half later. Nice! A nice looking offset coming along fast too.
2017 06 30 Sansevieria arborescens Variegated d.jpg
2017 06 30 Sansevieria arborescens Variegated d.jpg (134.35 KiB) Viewed 5236 times
Here are my other 2, acquired together, and from a different seller, and obtained at roughly the same time as the first one.
2015 10 01 Sans arborescens Var #2 A #2 B c.JPG
2015 10 01 Sans arborescens Var #2 A #2 B c.JPG (84.72 KiB) Viewed 5236 times
And today. Still alive, looking fine, just not growing fast (yet)... which I'm OK with.
2017 06 30 Sansevieria arborescens Variegated e.jpg
2017 06 30 Sansevieria arborescens Variegated e.jpg (79.89 KiB) Viewed 5236 times
And for fun, a group photo. Interesting is the offset of #1 is already comparable in size to the other 2 plants, obviously benefiting from Mom still attached.
2017 06 30 Sansevieria arborescens Variegated c.jpg
2017 06 30 Sansevieria arborescens Variegated c.jpg (329.66 KiB) Viewed 5236 times
All receive the same lighting; very bright, but filtered with shade cloth.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#27

Post by Spination »

By the way, if you asked me for a plausible theory as to why one grew so much since I had it, and the other 2 not so much... I would surmise that there is a tipping point where a plant becomes sufficiently established, and then really takes off growth-wise. Before that point though, progress can be very slow (unless still attached to the mother plant!). The first one I got was already sufficiently well established and large enough that it's growth was relatively immediate. The other two were quite small, and they are still working at getting to that point, in my opinion.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#28

Post by Gee.S »

I think Sans just go nuts when they find their sweet spot, no matter how big or small. A lot of us have probably had the experience of watching a trifasciata sit and collect dust for years until you move it to a sunny window, then watch as 20 new 3' - 4' leaves shoot up over the next year. And one thing we know about S. arboreacence is that it likes an amount of sun that would burn most Sans to a crisp. It might be an interesting experiment to lose the shade cloth over one of those little guys for a spell, I'd say the green one.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#29

Post by Spination »

So, regarding Sansevieria pests, I had nothing in memory to refer to, realizing in an after the fact manner, that I've had zero pest issues with my plants in the years I've been growing them.

In The Splendid Sansevieria by Juan Chahinian, there are exactly 2 paragraphs devoted to the subject of pests:
"Sansevierias, like any other plants are subject to diseases. Many commercial rare plant growers claim they have never seen any pests on a sansevieria. There is no reason not to believe this. However, those growers are not growing sansevierias only. They also have an array of other succulent plants that are more susceptible to disease. In treating them, without realizing it, or without being willing to admit it, they treat sansevierias as well, thus giving them a preventive treatment.
The most common insects attacking sansevierias are scale, thrips and mealy bugs, all of which can be treated with the more modern insecticides offered in the market. There are excellent water soluble powders and pellets available that do not damage the roots. Beware of insecticides that contain oils to emulsify the chemicals. These are very detrimental to the roots of sansevierias and will severely impair the growth of such plants."

I also checked in with Hermine Stover's book The Sansevieria Book (online edition), and find the following regarding pests:
"There is no problem of insect control on Sansevierias. No insects. No problem. Nothing to control. Nothing to study. Nothing to discuss. THE END."

As for myself, I have to admit I've seen the occasional fly on sansevierias. Perhaps, that is not technically correct. The flies I've seen were stuck to the spider webs that I allow spiders to construct on my plants, if they feel so inclined. I view spiders as allies, and so I will allow them to construct the occasional web between leaves of the plants they deem more suitable for such endeavors. I'm not a big fan of insects around my plants, and any help offered, even by a spider with regard to insect control, is gladly accepted, even if not exactly aesthetically pleasing. I guess though, even a spider web has a certain appeal, once one gets over the initial revulsion.

To answer your question specifically, and my guess I am thus only corroborating the conclusion you have already drawn... if I suspected some insect within a plant, I would spray with a systemic, as I would an Aloe or Agave. Personally, I have never deliberately sprayed mine with insecticide, or felt the need to do so, but I suppose as Juan Chaninian suggests, my plants may have been treated without my realization, if nearby Aloes were sprayed with Forbid or Avid over the last years. At the least, I can say my plants were never sprayed directly.

EDIT - it just occurred to me that most of my plants came from Thailand. All of them came with phytosanitary certificates, which I assumed means they were chemically treated before shipment. However, in reviewing photos of those documents in photo files, the spaces to be filled in regarding chemical treatments all have "XXXX" or "---" filled in those blanks. So, I guess my assumption that they came with some initial treatment is incorrect.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#30

Post by Gee.S »

Thanks for the research. I wound up giving a little squirt of malathion, something I also did a few months ago when I first noticed unnatural looking moisture droplets at the top of the "core". Whatever it is, guess it can't be much, considering the growth rate of the plant.

Ya know, I still want to know how my Sans can do math.... Rhizome follows the curved edge and comes up at furthest point from mama....
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#31

Post by Gee.S »

BTW, the new above ground offset forming here was unbelievably sticky to the touch, less so now that it's grown. In your experience, is that normal?

Image
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#32

Post by Spination »

Interesting. Would you say the sticky feel to it is due to a rough texture, or like some actual sticky substance on the surface? I haven't ever noticed that to date on any. Most seem actually quite smooth and slick to the touch.
Is that one there S. francissii?
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#33

Post by Gee.S »

Sticky, as if it were sprayed with glue. and yes, S. francisii.

I've noticed that not everyone touches their plants as much as I do. Anytime I see something new or unusual, I feel compelled to touch it. I often have a hard time IDing Agaves from pics, because I'm unable to consider the texture of the leaves. OTOH, I believe I could ID certain Agaves while blindfolded, just from feeling leaf texture.

I probably shouldn't grow poison ivy.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#34

Post by Spination »

I think that's a great and underrated point regarding the texture of plants. I think I've perhaps been too much influenced by various plants I have that if touched, disturb their either waxy or farinose surfaces, in the case of certain Agave (Kutsugen No Mai Ogi), Aloe (glauca), Echeveria (cante), or Dudleya - are a few that come to mind. As such, I just developed a habit of handling them as little as possible. Anyway, I just touched my francisii :eek: and realized it's as smooth as can be. No rough texture, and nothing sticky.

I guess the question with yours is whether the substance came from the plant, or some external source or trigger.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#35

Post by Gee.S »

Oh, fair to say it came from the plant. It had the same sticky quality as the droplets on the S. arboreacence. See the part that's now crusted over? It was there, before it crusted over. Hmmm, perhaps the sticky ooze was helping to create the crust.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#36

Post by Spination »

Nothing sticky here...
2017 07 01 Sansevieria fransisii a.jpg
2017 07 01 Sansevieria fransisii a.jpg (77.63 KiB) Viewed 5209 times
I would guess as you infer perhaps a response from the plant dealing with some sort of damage. Haven't seen that yet on any of mine, but I'll be on the lookout going forward.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#37

Post by Gee.S »

Well no, there wouldn't be. Next time a new above ground rhizome forms, check it once it's an inch or two long. Mine was oozing glue while it was still forming.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#38

Post by Gee.S »

One more little nit -- I wonder if your S. arborescens are actually the same species as mine. Apart from the variegation, they seem similar, but not the same. In full disclosure, my plant was tagged "S. cf arborescens", and was kept apart from the same nursery's stock of "S. arborescens".

Or is it your experience that variegation causes S. arborescens to produce thinner, less furrowed leaves? I know pics can be misleading, my plant appears to have thicker and far more deeply furrowed leaves. For the record, my plant is about as dangerous as a Sharkskin or parryi.

Image
Image
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#39

Post by Spination »

The variegation may well be a factor, but I think the bigger picture is yours is getting super lighting, and is just basically growing tough as nails for the favor. :)) While mine might look rather delicate, the leaves are very stiff, and the business end of them can do some damage too. I got poked trying to find a way to stick my hand down to grab that pot, and the memory of it prevented me from replacing the plant where it was. :lol: It has a new home for the time being, and where I can easily place it outside too for morning sun. I will have to remember to put it back into that particular enclosure when winter rolls around, or it will suffer the same fate as my white variegated masoniana, which are no more. :oops:

As far as the arborescens-like species, there are two to my knowledge. One is the arborescens, and the other different but similar one is S. bagamoyensis. The difference is that arborescens leaves wrap around the stem, making them nearly impossible to break off, whereas where bagamoyensis widens at the stem too - they only wrap half way around the circumference of the stem, making them easier to break off with horizontal movements.
Definitely, yours and mine are the same species. I do believe mine would be more compact like yours with even brighter light, but I'd rather have a slightly less compact one than a sunburned one, so there it is... ::wink::
The variegated sections do sunburn easily.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#40

Post by Gee.S »

You're referring to known species. I get the strong sense there are many yet unsubscribed Sans species. Arid Lands stock includes an awful lot of "cf"s and locales, which I suspect are new and beyond the range of the species they are "cf"ing. I would say "stay tuned", but since Sans information sources are nearly non-existent, I have no idea what we should stay tuned to...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#41

Post by Gee.S »

This is my plant here: Sansevieria cf arborescence (Bhitala 1017)

Description says slower growth, but they may not have tried them in near full sun in the Valley. My plant does seem more compact, whether that is nurture or nature, I could not say, but AL suggests it may be nature.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#42

Post by Steph115 »

Beautiful sans collections! I especially like your S. sumpinsumpin / suffruticosa Gee. Thank you both for the heads up re: preferred light conditions for these guys as well.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#43

Post by Spination »

In The Splendid Sansevieria book, Juan Chahinian repeats that most of these Sans species do best in high light conditions. However, he warns against sunburn. I can say from my own experience that once a leaf is burnt, that's it... toast. Some specie's rosettes only consist of a few leaves, so frying them is a pretty big deal, because they're not coming back. As such, it is easier to err on the side of caution, and to make light adjustments gradually, and to watch very closely. One can always keep increasing the light until it is found satisfactory. But, one can not retreat from burnt leaves... and in that situation, the only hope is that the plant produces new rosettes to replace the one that is ruined forever.
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#44

Post by Gee.S »

Yes, here is a phrase you may never again see in print: "subtle Sansevieria damage"
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#45

Post by Spination »

Here is one for the pictures-are-worth-XXX-words file... my biggest Sansevieria mistake. A lesson in improper transition to more light.

arrival
2013 11 15 Sansevieria Lake Eyasi .jpg
2013 11 15 Sansevieria Lake Eyasi .jpg (299.35 KiB) Viewed 5168 times
9 months later
2014 08 20 Sans Lake Eyasi c a.jpg
2014 08 20 Sans Lake Eyasi c a.jpg (66.09 KiB) Viewed 5168 times
1 year later. Nice work!
2015 08 08 Sans Lake Eyasi a a.jpg
2015 08 08 Sans Lake Eyasi a a.jpg (142.42 KiB) Viewed 5168 times
And, the result of an effort to "improve" lighting - OOPS , FAIL. Initial rosette is toast, 2nd rosette is irreversibly damaged, and one good rosette (#3) remains.
2016 09 03 Sansevieria Lake Eyasi a.jpg
2016 09 03 Sansevieria Lake Eyasi a.jpg (98.87 KiB) Viewed 5168 times
And here we are today. In essence, after some nearly 4 years, the plant did survive, in the form of a subsequent rhizomatic propagate, but what I have now is pretty much what I started with - one good rosette still in the making.
2017 07 02 Sansevieria Lake Eyasi a.jpg
2017 07 02 Sansevieria Lake Eyasi a.jpg (160.8 KiB) Viewed 5168 times
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#46

Post by Gee.S »

Yeah, earlier in this thread I also posted of sudden and shocking burn damage, but mine was less catastrophic, since it was just an S. fischeri, which btw, I found under the very same shade cloth as my S. arboreacence. I am and will always be hesitant to try most Sans in direct, unfiltered light, especially here in the VoTS.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#47

Post by Gee.S »

Three weeks growth. You know, I didn't expect this to grow as fast as trifasciata.

BTW, moisture droplets are gone after a spritz of malathion.

Image
Sans 002.JPG
Sans 002.JPG (116.23 KiB) Viewed 5147 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#48

Post by Brooksphilly »

Have you all tried acclimating pinguicula to the sun? It is the one for me that takes the most sun (other than cylindricas). The rest of mine are windowsill plants (fischerii, desertii, kirkii coppertone), even in Philadelphia.
IMG_0359.JPG
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#49

Post by Gee.S »

Funny you should ask, since I just found a beautiful S. pinguicula in my mailbox a couple hours ago. I have never had one before, so have yet to try much of anything. ::wink::
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Growing Sans Collection

#50

Post by Brooksphilly »

excellent timing. I love them because of the aerial roots on the pups. They are also easy to propagate. I have been giving away rooted pups for years. The one pictured was just the larger one and a small pup when I got it 3 years ago from a grower in Long Beach, CA. I have it at work in a sunny window now but he grew it In outdoor sun from morning to early afternoon. Not sure about AZ sun though, especially in July. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.
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