Sansevieria and sun exposure

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Sansevieria and sun exposure

#1

Post by Gee.S »

So I've learned an important lesson regarding Sanseveria and sun exposure, and thought I'd share. Some Sans take more sun than others, and there is always a temptation to try to acclimate to more sun, especially plants that have been grown indoors or under heavy shade cloth. The lesson I've learned is this -- don't do it. You absolutely can carefully nudge some Sans toward more exposure than they might be accustomed to in situ, but this does not mitigate damage to new leaves and offsets. So my advice is to not bother getting your toes wet, just jump in and monitor closely, backing off at the first hint of ugly white patch, if you want to test sun exposure. I have now twice been rewarded for my more careful efforts with burnt offsets.
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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#2

Post by Gee.S »

So the big question now is how well my new S. ehrenbergii manages sun. It has nice thick leaves like sun loving S. arborescence, but that is no guarantee of anything. My S. pinguicula is also managing sun well, though I actually use my S. arborescence to shade it a little, just because it's soooo dark green. The S. ballyi is smaller and probably a faster grower, so not as worrisome if it picks up a little burn. But S. ehrenbergii burns would make me very unhappy...

Image
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#3

Post by Spination »

I didn't realize or pay attention to the fact that your ballyi is doing the stolon thing from up higher on the rosette. That might be a major difference between that and bella and suffruticosa.

Other than that, my experience with sun is once the leaves are burned, they are damaged permanently. Unlike other rosette forming plants like Agave and Aloe, which replace their leaves from core to bottom, eventually retiring leaves, the Sans seem to keep their leaves as the plant gets older, just adding more to the plant (except for those which form a certain sized rosette and stay like that). So, the burnt ugly leaves are for all intents and purposes, forever... The salvation is that new rosettes should also form from the original plants (except for the few that are solitary), and one can start fresh with the offset if the parent has been "ruined".
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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#4

Post by Gee.S »

Image
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#5

Post by Gee.S »

Spination wrote:I didn't realize or pay attention to the fact that your ballyi is doing the stolon thing from up higher on the rosette. That might be a major difference between that and bella and suffruticosa.

Other than that, my experience with sun is once the leaves are burned, they are damaged permanently. Unlike other rosette forming plants like Agave and Aloe, which replace their leaves from core to bottom, eventually retiring leaves, the Sans seem to keep their leaves as the plant gets older, just adding more to the plant (except for those which form a certain sized rosette and stay like that). So, the burnt ugly leaves are for all intents and purposes, forever... The salvation is that new rosettes should also form from the original plants (except for the few that are solitary), and one can start fresh with the offset if the parent has been "ruined".
Depends on the form. Just hack leaves off on baseball bat or even cylindrica-like Sans. On those that grow tall, like arborescens, slice damage off on lower leaves once they're taller.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#6

Post by Spination »

LOL, green paint. Now why didn't I think of that? :lol:
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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#7

Post by Gee.S »

I can't see why painting hideous white patches would hurt anything. A dark green marker might make plants look a lot nicer, at least from a discreet distance.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#8

Post by Gee.S »

A point of interest, I noticed a lower leaf on my S. arborescens is yellowing, possibly from age, heat and sun exposure, just as an Agave might. An older leaf, less exposed, is not yellowing. So perhaps it will green back up if exposure is reduced, or perhaps it's on its way out, I'm not sure. I am sure I like this a lot better than hideous white patches. I know this level of sun exposure is OK, because as noted in the OP, the best measure is that of new leaves and offsets, and the offset looks good. BTW, that offset broke ground only two months ago, and in one more will be as large as mama when first acquired.
S. arborescens
S. arborescens
Sans_Sans 018.JPG (127.21 KiB) Viewed 4814 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#9

Post by Marlon Machado »

Gee.S, your arborescens is not that species, but is an undescribed Sansevieria species originally collected in Somalia by John Lavranos, and that has the collection number Lavranos 23251. It is related to S. arborescens, but leaves are much thicker.
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#10

Post by Gee.S »

Thanks! Sounds about right, I believe it was tagged "cf arborescens" or some such. Leaves are a little smaller and thicker, and I'm happy to report that it takes lots of sun extremely well, just like its close cousin.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#11

Post by Spination »

Just for some extra confirmation - here's my 23251. Except for the variegation, I'd say it's a perfect match.
2017 08 26 Sansevieria Lavranos 23251 a.jpg
2017 08 26 Sansevieria Lavranos 23251 a.jpg (79.12 KiB) Viewed 4729 times
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#12

Post by Azuleja »

I'm a fan of that one. Love that it gets big but stays vertical.
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#13

Post by Spination »

Illustrating the difference mentioned by Marlon - here is one of my S. arborescens. Compared to the Lavranos 23251 shown above, leaves are much thinner, and somewhat flatter, without the pronounced channel of 23251.
2017 09 20 Sansevieria arborescens b.jpg
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#14

Post by Gee.S »

^ See Growing Sans Collection, Post #38.

For the record, I purchased my plant from the president of the International Sansevieria Society, who had it tagged Sansevieria cf arborescence (Bhitala 1017).
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#15

Post by Spination »

I'm no expert, but slowly gathering information as I go along. Also, as we know, information isn't that easy to find for Sansevieria in general, with limited references. As such, much of my understanding comes form the IDs provided for my plants, and Juan Chahinian's book. I'd say my plant looks like a very good facsimile of the pic on page 20, regarding general appearance. As far as the IDs coming with the plants I obtain, I don't take it as Gospel, but as a likelihood, until and unless I receive better information... and I endeavor to keep an open mind.

Regarding "cf" - means "Compare to". "aff" I have come to believe is a term that actually means a close similarity, so unless cf and aff are synonyms (then why 2 different terms though?), I have to wonder what is meant exactly by "compare to". From reading the definition, I gather it is supposed to mean the person conferring cf in the ID is suggesting it should be compared to that species. OK - so? I guess I could show a pic of S. suffrutticosa, and ID it as S. cf arborescens, and all I'm saying is compare it to that, which is not much of a comparison except to say they are very different. I guess what I'm saying is "cf" seems ambiguous at best, and misleading at worst, and not very useful.
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#16

Post by Gee.S »

cf = aff (aff is no longer used), and IMHO it's far more useful than the likes of "Lavranos 23251". The numeric moniker is 100% non-descriptive, while cf actually provides useful information (undescrbed Sans that strongly resembles S. abrorescens). And remember, undescribed plants are tagged "cf" in situ. When I tag an Agave cf (we run into cf's all the time -- half of the world's "known" A. chrysantha is actually "cf", a discovery we just made this year) it means looks like, lives like, quacks like, smells like, and craps like -- and that translates into valuable cultivation info. Then why are they not A. chrysantha? Different blooms.

Other than that, I have no clue regarding Bhitala 1017 vs. Lavranos 23251. They may be the exact same plant, for all I know.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#17

Post by Spination »

One site suggests it looks like a hybrid between S. arborescens and S. pinguicula. "From Somalia. Looks like a hybrid of S. pinguicula and S. arborescens! Leaves are short, thick and sharply pointed, somewhat glaucous especially when young. Forms a short stem covered with leaves. A little slow. Limited." http://www.phylla.com/brookcgi/brooksid ... =list_sans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; To me, that description of a hybrid is feasible.

Regarding that description, I'm wondering if by "short stem covered with leaves" - they're saying the plant does not get "tall". If that's the case, a significant difference from S. arborescens which attains a height of 7 ft.
That in itself would not support a naming which implies it's much the same or similar to S. arborescens. Pretty big difference from something that perhaps attains a height of a couple feet (???) compared to 7 feet....
Aside from the physical differences between the two - S. arborescens and S. Lav 23251, I can only state from my own experience so far that I've obtained plants that started out each small, arborescens is already multiples taller than 23251 in half the time growing. Based on that, I'd say my arborescens is indeed destined to be quite tall before it's done growing, and Lavranos 23251 not at all.

In any case, the name - since the plant when found matched no other description of a named species, was apparently dubbed with the John Lavranos field collection number #23251.
From here: http://www.crassulaceae.ch/uploads/file ... n%2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is available this limited information regarding the collection #.
"1985 (Sep-Oct). Somalia. Missouri Botanical Garden Mission. Gatherings 23123-23544. With Susan Carter, Frank Horwood, & Seymour Linden."

So, since 1985, this species/hybrid/plant has been known as Lavranos 23251. That designation identifies the plant as the one found " north-west near Mogadishu on the road to Bilad (Balcad)."
http://sanseverix.com/lavranos_23251.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure how decades after the discovery in 1985 the introduction of another name S. cf. arborescens is an improvement or clarification that helps collectors - unless it is that the individual providing the second name believes it to be something quite different from S. Lavranos 23251. If that's the case, I'd be interested in what the differences are that warrant a different name. Surely, such differences must be quite evident and obvious.
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#18

Post by Gee.S »

I haven't seen "cf" applied to the Lavranos moniker, rather it was applied to my plant, "Bhitala 1017", which hails from Tarasa, Kenya. It is described as a dwarf form.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#19

Post by Spination »

Well, they hail from different locations. Balcad appears to be near the coast of Somalia. Somalia borders Kenya but Balcad is not close to the border in any direction (coast or inland). Google maps "can't find" anywhere called Tarasa, Kenya. I was just curious how far apart the locations are, and the terrain differences/similarities (like if Tarasa was near the coast in Kenya).

However, since there are significant enough differences (dwarf vs giant) between it and S. arborescens - I think having calling it (the S. cf. arborescens) S. cf. Lavranos 23251 is actually more apt and that name explains what it's all about much better, since Lav 23251 is a name in common usage for a long time. To me, your plant resembles 23251 much more than it resembles arborescens.
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#20

Post by Gee.S »

OK. If you don't like "cf", then don't use it. Us field folks will continue to use it however, presumably until it's replaced by the next big thing.

I bought my plant from a fellow who went to Kenya, collected it, and brought it back to the US. Bob Webb has been to Africa collecting Sans five times to date. It isn't S. arborescens and it isn't Lavranos 23251. And frankly, I don't really care. I just brought it home because I like it.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#21

Post by Spination »

That's fine.

As for me, it's not a matter of what I like or not. It's like a mystery, or a puzzle, and I like trying to solve, or at least understand better. It's not perfect using the best available information, given there's not that much to go by.

Just for kicks, I did find out that there's a Tarasaa High School in Kenya, in Tana River County, and it looks to be less than 100 miles from the coast. Elevation is 340 feet. Elevation of Balcad, Somalia is 320 feet, although nearer to the coast (looks about 50 miles from the coast). However the two locations are 500 miles apart, mostly north-south. The implication is that both plants, one found in Kenya, and the other in Somalia, are much nearer the coast than inland Africa - suggesting not so different habitat conditions. I'm not sure how 500 miles figures into the range of a single species, on average.

So, they may be different, or maybe not, but from the pictures, I can't name anything distinctive that separates one from the other.
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#22

Post by Brooksphilly »

Hey Guys. Been growing this 23251 for 2 years. It came to me via Florida, about half this size. Likes morning sun here in Philly. Dude grew it in full sun in Florida. Gee, can you update on yours?
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Re: Sansevieria and sun exposure

#23

Post by Gee.S »

In general, I have found the exposure of Sans to sun a losing proposition, at least here in AZ. Might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later...
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

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Re: Sanseveria and sun exposure

#24

Post by sandalaf »

Gee.S wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:48 pm A point of interest, I noticed a lower leaf on my S. arborescens is yellowing, possibly from age, heat and sun exposure, just as an Agave might. An older leaf, less exposed, is not yellowing. So perhaps it will green back up if exposure is reduced, or perhaps it's on its way out, I'm not sure. I am sure I like this a lot better than hideous white patches. I know this level of sun exposure is OK, because as noted in the OP, the best measure is that of new leaves and offsets, and the offset looks good. BTW, that offset broke ground only two months ago, and in one more will be as large as mama when first acquired.

Sans_Sans 018.JPG
Oh, that is a gorgeous plant structure …
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