Tylecodon cacalioides

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Spination
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Tylecodon cacalioides

#1

Post by Spination »

This winter-grower, a member of Crassulaceae, has it's new flush of plump, needle-like leaves and is looking awesome right now. I've had it for approx 6+ years, and it's a favorite for it's unusual bumpy stem surface, branching habit, and lovely flowers which seem to occur on an every-other-year basis. Each branch terminates in a pom-pom like cluster of leaves. It's grown a great deal since I've been it's care-taker, and now measures 35" from soil-line to the tip of it's highest leaves. It resides in a greenhouse providing filtered light, but every so often I pull it out to give it a good soak and sometimes take new pictures.
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides a X735.jpg
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides a X735.jpg (118.01 KiB) Viewed 3337 times
In this cropped view, it's easy to note the bump below it's first branching (on left), where I cut off a branch this last spring, and left it to root in a good draining cactus mix with extra pumice added. The cutting lost it's leaves in short order, and being a winter-grower, it sat in relative stasis until the last couple of months, when new leaves began appearing letting me know the rooting was successful. I was reticent to cut off the branch, but I was anxious to propagate it in this manner, and the addition of the new plant is ample compensation. The cut on the original plant's stem healed up well, which was dusted with sulfur powder at the time of the cut.
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides a a.jpg
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides a a.jpg (200.92 KiB) Viewed 3337 times
The leaves
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides b a X735.jpg
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides b a X735.jpg (152.89 KiB) Viewed 3337 times
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides c X735.jpg
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides c X735.jpg (149.94 KiB) Viewed 3337 times
close up
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides c a X735.jpg
2014 11 27 Tylecodon cacalioides c a X735.jpg (174.43 KiB) Viewed 3337 times
from over 3 years ago in the fall, when it first bloomed for me.
2011 08 07 d a.jpg
2011 08 07 d a.jpg (130.44 KiB) Viewed 3337 times
close up of flowers
2011 08 07 c x 800.jpg
2011 08 07 c x 800.jpg (110.74 KiB) Viewed 3337 times
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#2

Post by Spination »

Nearly 2 months later, this plant is now as lush as I've ever seen it.
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes a X775.jpg
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes a X775.jpg (138.3 KiB) Viewed 3305 times
The straight, spaghetti-like ball of leaves now feature up to 8" lengths, longer than ever before on this plant.
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes b X775.jpg
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes b X775.jpg (112.54 KiB) Viewed 3305 times
Below, one can see the end section of stem on this branch, and it's relatively fresh, green condition where the leaves are primarily coming out. By next year, that section will harden, become the indistinguishable continuation of older stem, and looks to be adding another 4-5" to each branch, and the process will continue.
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes d X775.jpg
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes d X775.jpg (111.51 KiB) Viewed 3305 times
The plant cutting I made last year sports it's own small set of healthy leaves, indicating without doubt the propagation was a success. I'm tempted to cut more branches and propagate more plants, but the truth is I prefer the more branched and bushy appearance of the original plant, so it will be left alone for another year. In another couple of months, it will be too late to make any cuttings anyway, as being a winter grower, the cutting will languish until the fall, if it even survives.
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes P1 X775.jpg
2015 01 20 Tylecodon cacaliodes P1 X775.jpg (102.54 KiB) Viewed 3305 times
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#3

Post by mickthecactus »

Sure it's not wallichii? I know they are hard to tell apart.
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#4

Post by Geoff »

I had same question... seen both (maybe) plants in shows and botanical gardens over the last 15 years, and just when I think I can tell them apart, a plant is identified just the opposite of what I expected. Flowers seem identical (nearly?). 95% of these Tylecodons that look like this in Southern California are identified as wallichii. Never seen a sizable cacalioides (or one identified as such). I have grown what was IDd as wallichii in my garden on multiple occasions... pretty hardy and very fast growing tree... went from a tiny cutting to a 2' tall, thick bonsai tree in just 6 years (now in a large pot too heavy to move). I have it in Acton where it gets to 20F though lives in the garage in winter (where only gets down to 26F)... though I do have some cuttings of it living outdoors and so far are taking 20F very well. I showed it off to folks on the British cactus site and many chimed in it was a T cacalioides and not a wallichii, though no one could offer definitely reasons for their assertions. Also have smaller plants of T cacalioides which are going great in greenhouse, but haven't had the guts to try one of those outdoors yet.
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#5

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Thanks for questioning the ID, as that prompted for me much more and deeper scrutiny in available information out there, and hopefully a better understanding of the differences in the 2 species; wallichi and cacaliodes. I always appreciate opportunities to expand my knowledge and understanding, as much as I am capable of achieving.
I'm not insistent on the ID, as the bottom line for me is I'm all for the truth. Whatever it is, then that's what it is, and I'd sure like to know with absolute certainty, if that's possible based on the absolute inconsistency and uncertainty that seems to be prevalent "out there".

I bought the plant a number of years ago from a place called The Great Petaluma Desert in - of all places, lol, Petaluma, Ca.
It was open at the time by appointment only, and there was no problem arranging a visit. The proprietor was kind enough to take us on a tour of the greenhouses, showing off a treasure trove of fantastical plants in all shapes and sizes.
Back then, I knew precious little in terms of specific knowledge regarding rare and exotic succulents, and as I recall, their specialty was Caudiciforms, and propagation of such. As I recall, many plants were CITES species, and mention was made of special permits and such regarding the acquisition of plants. Back then, I was quite unfamiliar with activity regarding such rare plants, and I remember being very impressed with the man's seemed and apparent knowledge, and passion for his plants, and that someone would go through such troubles (government red tape and such) pursuing that passion.
I did a quick check online to see if the place still exists, and I see it does, and there's a little website I found as well. Back then, I was far from computer-literate and was given the phone number by an acquaintance.
http://gpdesert.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The plant pictured in the thread came from there, and was quite pricey according to what I felt at the time, and came with the ID Tylecodon cacaliodes. Luckily, the plant seems to love the spot in the old greenhouse where it's resided for all these years now, a monster compared to the tiny thing that was acquired. It is now 36" from the soil line to the tip of it's top flush of leaves, and it may have taken up to 10 years to get there, as truthfully I can't actually remember when it was acquired precisely. It predates my expanded passion for plants, and my use of digital photography, and computer use, and the current photo-documentary and photo-file system I employ. Each plant get it's own file, which is filed in a file for the species, which is filed in a file for the sub-family, then family, and so on. Anyway, the plant has been consistently situated receiving bright light, but more so indirect light, and it seems to be very happy about it, if a healthy and growing plant is an indicator. I'm of the mind that "if it aint' broke, don't fix it" mentality, so there it will stay for as long as I have the say in the matter.

Anyway, I had a couple of years ago researched online what I've been able to find, and the descriptions seemed to match my plant, including the flowering. Co-incidentally, I've also checked out Tylecodon wallichi, and that seems to me a different plant. That one seems to have a smoother stem, and more pale yellow flowers.
http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/ ... lichi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.africansucculents.eu/informa ... codon.html#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I never had cause to doubt the ID previously, but in digging into this again this morning, I find that the ID of these 2 species is often a subject of great debate, and here is a link that supports that notion.
http://www.bcss.org.uk/foruma/viewtopic ... 1&t=162062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One response to the questioning of ID and plant comparison posted these 2 links for "definitive" (?) information
http://www.ispotnature.org/species-dict ... 0wallichii" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (see pics 8,9,10, 11) You can click each picture for a larger photo and more information. Please note that the stems on several of these pics seem completely wrong (regarding the phyllopodia), which might well question just how definitive this source is and possible rampant mis-identification of species. IMO, based on what I've come to correctly or incorrectly understand (to be determined), I would say at least pics 2,3,6 posted by different photographers are incorrectly ID'd. That they were posted and labeled as "Tylecodon" (no species) and (poster comment "It's likely to be this, but I can't be certain"), "Wild Cotelydon Plant" , "Euphorbia Species"( with comment "I'm as sure as I can be"), doesn't exactly instill confidence. Pic 11 shows a relatively smooth stemmed plant that is consistent with wallichi and opposition to pics 2,3,6.
http://www.ispot.org.za/species_diction ... acalioides" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (pics 1,2,3,5) actually, this thread for cacaliodes demonstrates one heck of a lot more consistency than the same site's thread for wallichi.

It seems to me one seemingly striking and distinguishing feature based on those 2 "expert" sources is the flowers. One is bright yellow - cacaliodes (like mine), and the other more compact and dull yellow flowers - wallichi (not like mine).
Other than that, there seems to be a some number of inconsistencies regarding the stem, the "bumpiness" exhibited as seen in the various pictures (the wallichi thread).

Looks to be a much debated and controversial subject, with inconsistent arguments and pictures, excepting the flowering from what I can tell.

A perfect case in point is the "authoritative" replies in the CW thread (replies 1, 3 - down from the 2 original posts). This person states "Without flowers, Tylecodon cacaloides and wallichii cannot be distinguished", but then goes on to say he suspects pics 2 and 8 (of cacaliodes, post 2) because they lack phyllopodia, and the light green, flattened leaves. Let's completely ignore that he completely missed that photo 8 is TWO plants, side by side, for COMPARISON! He only sees the taller wallichi, and misses the below cacaliodes. My point is, he says you CAN'T distinguish, but then he DOES! What better example to illustrate confusion and lack of certainty when it comes to the proper ID of these 2 species? In any case, in his second reply, he seems to come to agreement with the plant ID'd and pictured as cacaliodes.

Actually, I think the CW thread starter made a very good case for the 2 different species, picturing wallichi from HBG with their smooth-ish stems, in contrast to the plants in his second post of cacaliodes. Also, his experience regarding his cacaliodes seems to mesh with my own specified and limited experience, for what it's worth. If his information is accurate, my plant matches what he IDs as cacaliodes, and thus is rather easily distinguished from the wallichi examples.

At this time, I'm unconvinced that my plant isn't exactly what it was sold to me as, and I would be completely thrilled to correct it to another ID if shown that should be the case.

D))
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#6

Post by mickthecactus »

I do think you're right about the smoother stem. I grew wallichii for years until it became too big and I donated it to Kew Gardens but I recall the stem being a lot smoother than your plant. Flowers were pretty identical though.

I should be going to Kew in spring so I'll take a couple of pictures for comparison.
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

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Post by Laura81 »

That plant is very interesting. I love any plant with "fingers."
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#8

Post by Spination »

Thanks mick, I'm not 100% sure, as it seems to me a lot of dedicated and plant-loving people apparently from all I found on the net, are confused as to the two species. It's not really me that's right, it's just the best I was able to interpret from all the available resources I was able to find. If shown that that my interpretations are incorrect, I'm just as glad to be wrong, the reward being knowing once and for all the true facts regarding those 2 species.

Laura, never thought of it that way, but it is somehow a very appealing and delightfully weird looking plant to me. I like the irregular surface of the stem, and what seems to me the funny mop of hair (or fingers!) atop each branch. It is truly a unique type of plant, I think.

D))
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#9

Post by Laura81 »

That is funny ...a mop of hair. I can see that. Do the blooms smell like anything or are you not a sniffer? Is that your yard or just a great looking nursery? Amazing, all the pots with the name cards. I am such a slacker.
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

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Post by Spination »

D)) Yup, I kind of visualize a mop of hair. Now, if they could just sing too, they'd make a great looking rock group.

I do not recall a fragrance. I think this flower's attraction modus operandi for pollination is it's bright color, or at least that's my guess. I agree, there's nothing like the sweet fragrance of various blooms, but then again little else as vile as the unpleasant odor of some others, like a certain stapeliad which has bloomed in the past as well (crinkles nose with the memory). :eek:

Nursery, nah...that's one old, aging structure of wood and fiberglass panels as windows completely surrounding it, with fiberglass sheeting for the roof. So, it's well lit, but provides great shelter for certain plants. It's roughly 20 x 20.

Yes, all the plants get labels. I've become adept at remembering the names, but I also add other information (at least now I do) such as dates, and sources. The labels are a crutch I guess if memory fails, and a handy resource right there with the plant if needed. With propagates, I'm finding the labels aren't big enough D)) in that I include my own code that identifies the parent plant and generation, and a couple of generations down the line, the code gets longer and longer. I may abandon such perhaps extraneous information in the future, but for now I find it interesting, and perhaps useful later in the case of desirable mutations achieved (such as variegation), as far as further utilization of parent plants.

I love plants, but some more than others apparently. Right now, it's what I would call a hobby, but perhaps in time it will be more. :D
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

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Post by Spination »

Today, my first Tylecodon wallichii arrived in today's mail, so now I was able to make my own first hand comparison of that vs T. cacalioides. Being able to look at the two plants in person makes the difference so very obvious, it's hard to imagine the two ever being confused.
Although the new one is young, I have my own propagate of the different T. cacalioides nearly 1 1/2 years old now (and VERY slow growing!) by cutting a small branch off the parent plant, and having rooted it previously. Now, I can compare like-sized plants against each other. T. wallichii has very long nubs or bumps coming off the stem, much longer than the bumps on T. cacalioides. They are extremely different in that regard. The nubs are the remnants and locations of old leaves which have since dried up and fallen off in previous growing year cycles.
2015 09 03 Tylecodon cacalioides P1 vs Tylecodon wallichii X750.jpg
2015 09 03 Tylecodon cacalioides P1 vs Tylecodon wallichii X750.jpg (208.4 KiB) Viewed 3164 times
On another note, it appears the start of the new growing season for my T. cacalioides begins now, with the appearance of a new flush of leaves appearing on top or the end of each branch/stem. The picture shows a mix of old leaves not dried up, old leaves completely dried up, and brand new leaves appearing. In habitat, all the old leaves would have dried up. Although I know that Summer (our Summer North of the Equator) is a rest period for the plant, I still give it an occasional light watering, due to the fact that it's location in an old greenhouse gets just too blazing hot. If it's only 80 outside, it's over 100 in there...
2015 09 03 Tylecodon cacalioides a X750.jpg
2015 09 03 Tylecodon cacalioides a X750.jpg (151.24 KiB) Viewed 3164 times
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#12

Post by Spination »

I guess I should start near the beginning....
here's the plant back in 2011, after I had it a few years
2011 08 07 d a X 800H.jpg
2011 08 07 d a X 800H.jpg (219.38 KiB) Viewed 2810 times
I guess I've most definitely let this get out of hand. It's waaaay overdue for a bigger pot :oops:
2017 03 30 Tylecodon cacalioides a X800.jpg
2017 03 30 Tylecodon cacalioides a X800.jpg (433.37 KiB) Viewed 2810 times
It's a one-plant jungle. Here's a cropped view
2017 03 30 Tylecodon cacalioides a a X800.jpg
2017 03 30 Tylecodon cacalioides a a X800.jpg (301.86 KiB) Viewed 2810 times
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#13

Post by Stan »

Well,you might think of hacking back to a basic frame. You then have all summer for it to comeback in the fatplant style..dense crown on a now heavy trunk. You would have plenty of cuttings to root into instant large plants,trade bait,ebay sales. All that would also end the need to tie it up !..I know how that goes,been there. ;)
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#14

Post by Spination »

That's probably good advice. I think though I may be a little late as far as the window of opportunity in terms of optimal timing to make cuttings. Although I've found that several so-called "winter growers", actually grow according to the seasons where they are actually grown... these really are "winter growers", during the true winter here where I am growing it, and more or less go into maintain mode after spring. I've found that if I keep it watered through the summer, it will hold it's leaves. Otherwise, if I'm not as vigilant keeping it watered as the summer heats up, the leaves will easily and quickly dry up, and the plant flushes out with new leaves again late in the year. I took a small cutting in 2014, to see how that would go. It's still alive today, but not much bigger. In December last year, I took a larger cutting, and so far so good. I just now took another cutting, the largest one to date, and hopefully I haven't waited too long being this late in it's real growing season. I think before I hack it back drastically, I should wait until the next growing season starts, much later this year, so they can be in sync with their growing season.
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Re: Tylecodon cacalioides

#15

Post by Spination »

Stan wrote:Well,you might think of hacking back to a basic frame. You then have all summer for it to comeback in the fatplant style..dense crown on a now heavy trunk. You would have plenty of cuttings to root into instant large plants,trade bait,ebay sales. All that would also end the need to tie it up !..I know how that goes,been there. ;)
So, update. I listened to your advice, but didn't quite follow it through all the way. I did take an extra cutting though, albeit late, late in the growing season, and a larger cutting than I've ever taken in the past, to see how it would work out.
First, here's the original plant. Lots of branches. Some old leaves which didn't dry up during the non-growing season, and flushes of new leaves all over. I have found that depending on the consistency of my watering, and most especially when it's really hot, I can either maintain the old leaves until the new growing season, or they can dry up if I am not so good with the watering. This year was not good, but not bad - hence a lot of the old leaves dried, but some remained.
All pics are today, with the new flushes underway for a couple of weeks now, marking the beginning of the winter growing season for these plants.
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes branch b.jpg
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes branch b.jpg (244.12 KiB) Viewed 2540 times
And the large drooping/hanging branch
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes branch a.jpg
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes branch a.jpg (125.62 KiB) Viewed 2540 times
And circles showing all the new emerging branches on that branch - looks like at least 8 visible in the photo.
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes branch a a.jpg
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes branch a a.jpg (128.94 KiB) Viewed 2540 times
A cutting I took last year at this time - a good time because it's early in the growing season - with good expectation of rapid root development, etc.
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes cutting Oct 2016 .jpg
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes cutting Oct 2016 .jpg (95.32 KiB) Viewed 2540 times
And the extra cutting I took this year inspired by your advice. It's already a nice and good sized "insta-plant" with it's own branches forming (each flush will become a branch).
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes cutting Spring 2017.jpg
2017 10 21 Tylecodon cacaliodes cutting Spring 2017.jpg (162.6 KiB) Viewed 2540 times
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