Xericworld.com ?

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to xeric plants, which do not fit under any of our established categories, or to discuss issues of a general nature that bear relevance across multiple categories.
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Spination
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#26

Post by Spination »

Thanks Gee, I appreciate the vote of confidence. I just looked up the Miserable User - wow. Perfect name for it too.

I thought of another difference between my experience there and here. I've kind of lost count how many plant connections I've made here. You've sent me stuff, several others. I think there's been 4 packages of plants received in the last month or so alone from different members here. And, I've sent some out too. In other words, it's more than conversation. The people here really love the plants, growing them, and sharing them! How awesome is that?

Over there? One time. Brent Wigand was one exceptional fellow on that site with a lot of great aloes, and very friendly.
I got plants too from Jeremy Spath, but that was through Ebay, so really doesn't count. Funny thing, when I made a reference to Jeremy over there regarding one Aloe pachygaster I got from him, the certain fellow I referenced earlier with whom I had some friction, came unglued. "pachygaster???" he exclaimed. Apparently, it was his original mother plant from which the subsequent plants came from and which I got one, and he was absolutely livid! That itself caused a minor ruckus over there. Perfect snapshot of petty small mind in action. True story. Sad but true. This is a whole different world here. :))
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#27

Post by Gee.S »

In all fairness, Agaveville is dot-org, XW was dot-com. This is a 100% enthusiast site, while XW was actually a commercial site, originally conceived to promote Xeric Growers, a now long since failed online nursery enterprise. You probably can't expect a commercial site to encourage activity that might negatively impact their bottom line. So the Wanted/Trade section here was one of the early "couple features" XW lacked, the Galleries being the other.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#28

Post by Viegener »

Pachygaster?!?! LOL

I've been thinking about all of this. I guess if you're only dedication is to yourself, you might want to shut down a site and take all the archives (which, really, belong to all the people who contributed to it) with you. But if you're at all dedicated to the plants we share such a passion for, then you'd never do that.

It's a Donald Trump world. Me first. There, I said it.
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#29

Post by Stan »

Interesting that I just tried to post on another board that's breathing fumes-- Tropiscape. Photo's a'la Xericworld wont load. I'm not even sure why that board was created as it's like an offshoot of the palmboard- but they do nothing to encourage them to also use Tropicscape. Oh,well. Not my dime.
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#30

Post by Viegener »

At least Wikipedia will probably persist.

Sometimes I think about adding to & editing articles on there, but I know that certain topics with a lot of "experts" can be a minefield.
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#31

Post by Gee.S »

Stone Jaguar wrote:Although I loathe FB-Instagram for any number of reasons and am not a user, I am familiar with a number of the specialty plant discussions on it by peeking through the keyhole of others' accounts from time to time. From a plant person's perspective, its biggest defect is the ephemeral nature of info of value over there. I find the ads and vanity posts that lard the stream to be maddening and the page layout to be visually distracting. One hopes that there will be a gradual return to this type of forum from "Planet Whatever" as hard core plant fans tire of the fluff.
I could not agree more. Social media in general, is fine for idle chit chat, but provides a terrible venue as information repository. And that is where discussion forums shine. As example, I would point (except it isn't there any more) to a collaborative thread at XW in which several of us eventually worked out requirements for eriophyoid mite management/elimination via research, interview, and trial & error. It's one thing to discuss it now that details have been worked out, but I recall going from a time at which almost no one even knew what they were to the development of a successful management regimen. Great stuff! Good luck working that out across a couple years at the likes of FB.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#32

Post by Stan »

We have to avoid real world Politics..its almost ended the Palm Board. People got banned. Others I had gotten along with..well,their politics got so extreme that He went from a regular to never posting again. Darn thing was- he had a great garden in soucal. It even got into "I can buy what you cant". :roll:
btw- I hear it got so bad..somebody tried to get the tax exempt status taken away. I had no idea they were tax exempt or even paid taxes for just a Palm tree club! They even said hackers had tried to do bad things.
Don't worry- I'm at reading email and posting photos PC savvy. After that...
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#33

Post by Spination »

Maybe they should have had their conversations via back channel. :U: Anyway, two subjects best avoided - polly ticks, and real idgeon. Easier said than done. ;)
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#34

Post by Gee.S »

No problems discussing religion. After all, everyone knows Mayahuel is the one true god.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#35

Post by Stan »

Gee.S wrote:No problems discussing religion. After all, everyone knows Mayahuel is the one true god.
Its not Ra? eh,as long as I can grow plants,they are all good. :lol:
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#36

Post by Stan »

Its getting bad some places even I thought were immune. I was told that Dave's Garden has lost most of its members. I always thought if ONE plant board lives to show my pics in the next 20 years its Dave's.
You never know.
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#37

Post by Spination »

Dave's not here. ::wink::
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#38

Post by mcvansoest »

Dave's Garden obviously was charging money and they did a terrible revamp of the site (it may have changed hands again). A lot the subscribers there moved to what I think is Dave's new initiative: Garden.org
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#39

Post by Stan »

Garden.org? Eh,good for newbies but is very eastern garden oriented.
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#40

Post by Viegener »

Not even so good for newbies. It's know-nothings giving advice to newbies...
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#41

Post by Spination »

Thank Mayahuel there's a place like.... Agaveville!
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#42

Post by Stan »

And then there was Cloudforest ( :lol: ) that started as exotic subtropical fruit growing in norcal..and I tried to add the rest of the tropical plants..back in 2006 or so. All I heard from them was "You cant grow that"..I posted photos. I got "They wont last"..I posted photos years later.crickets :lol:
I could never get why Axel started a "Cloudforest" website for norcal..and then wanted to tell people they wont grow here. THAT website could have done really well if it had embraced the C&S as it evolved. There are quite few local horts here..but then it gets political since many I know USED to be so "Only in soucal" now they plant things I told them would do well..I see their photos and think "HE (some local) told me I could never grow those!"

Now that Axel moved to Hawaii?..he posts nothing. You figure that. It could have been a good regional board- very local. I was up to helping. Shrug shoulders here.

To me the whole problem there.."You can't grow that"...is really vanity statements by people..most who don't live in your area. Fighten words!
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#43

Post by DesertDweller »

Spination wrote:Maybe they should have had their conversations via back channel. :U: Anyway, two subjects best avoided - polly ticks, and real idgeon. Easier said than done. ;)
This ^^^^^^ !

A couple forums I've been on, even when they had explicit, "you will get banned" rules on those two subjects, people literally could not stop themselves. You had folks inserting politics into their profile photos, signatures, that sort of passive stuff, but also plenty of overt discussions by people who could not bite their tongue. And this was (by far) the worst on a tool and equipment forum of all things! :?

Not surprisingly, a large contingent of users in "banned camp" as it were, created their own half-baked copy-cat tool forum. Folks on the original forum called that place "the dark side". At the end of the day, it all stemmed from ego. That original tool forum was and still is run by an unrepentant man-child who drove away more contributors with his behavior than he ever banned. I was never involved with XW, but have seen enough on other forums to say that while astonished, I am not surprised by how things went down.

Bummed to see a resource like XW disappear, to be sure, but the contrast does make me appreciate the quality of this place compared to just about everywhere else I've been a member or lurked at. :U
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#44

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Well, I missed the whole thing but I'll throw in my two cents too D))

I'm not sure that Allen ever really had a plan for XW. Obviously he wanted to drive customers to his retail site. But at the same time, he allowed (encouraged?) the discussions to trend toward heady, technical discussions of ethics, pesticides, etc., or toward rare, expensive, and slow plants that he didn't and couldn't sell. It's like he invited his buddies to join, they all did, and when you get too many experts in a room they all have to argue over who's the expertiest. So we ended up with people fighting about whether or not you should ever attempt to identify plants via pictures on a screen, rather than making sure that your new plants for sale were clearly visible, easy to buy, and with adequate care instructions. Xeric Growers did have some cool plants, and I kick myself for not ordering Merwillia plumbea back when I had the chance! I wish it would have succeeded - you can't have too many online nurseries. Jeremy Spath told me that their TC lab flooded and was destroyed. That's a pretty crappy deal no matter how you feel about the people involved.

I think that lack of direction was the common thread linking all the problems.
- he needed help (badly) with moderation. I offered to help as well...I'm not an expert like GS, but I had enough experience with the platform from being a moderator back in the day with troublefreepool.com. I never got a response, but at least I didn't get my head bitten off! I believe that he was trying to combat the worst of the bickering, even if it was too little and too late. One member changed their tune greatly and actually became rather friendly and helpful. Another was outright deleted, leaving big holes in the threads. That deleted member was so toxic that I believe they did irreparable damage before Allen finally nuked them. It really was SAD! to see.
- he needed help with the site itself. One day, the "thanks" feature broke and a bunch of gibberish replaced it. Next the photo stream at the top of the home page mysteriously disappeared. Then the intermittent login issues. Then, the total failure of the picture uploading system (final nail in the coffin). It was like an old jalopy that was gradually losing pieces, but it has so many good memories that you just can't stand to send it to the junkyard.

Even if it was a failure as a marketing tool for Xeric Growers, the base that he established was very valuable. Having people like John Trager (huntington curator), Tim Harvey (crusty old grower), Kelly Griffin (aloe/agave hybridizer), John (Institute for Aloe Studies), Kent (agavemonger), Karen Zimmerman (Huntington aloe hybridizer), Matt Maggio (echeveria & agave breeder/landscape designer), Jeremy Spath (San Diego BG), etc etc., was really an amazing thing. They had lots of rare plants, rare experience, and a passion for discussion. Like Spination said - it was a perfect setup that was then run straight into the ground.

Never having personally experienced Allen's wrath, I have quite a bit of sympathy for him. The project was kicked off in a wave of enthusiasm, and experienced some success...other projects are also going on, and there's not enough time in the day/week/month to give them all the attention that they need to really thrive. So little things slip, more things slip, you know you're behind, you get stressed out but still think you can fix it...I have the same tendencies. So, while there isn't any excuse for being a jerk, having bitten off a few undeserving heads myself I can sympathize a bit with the hole he dug himself.

It holds lots of fond memories for me. I first found that site after sunburning the crap out of a couple of variegated A. victoriae-reginae, and got some needed help. Seeing Allen's story about A. 'Royal Spine' kicked off my plant addiction. My search for 'Royal Spine' eventually introduced me to Greg Starr, who had a friendly relationship with the California crowd at that time so had a bunch of Allen's TC plants. There was old-fashioned fun - a member called "The Ghost of Howard Gentry" would pop in every now and then to set people straight. Lots of bickering about whether a plant is A. titanota or not...what else is new? I read just about every word on that site and will always miss the good old days.

As SJ said, I also loathe the facebook groups that seem to have mostly replaced forums like this. It's impossible to find something again, even only a minute later...once it's off your screen it might as well have never existed. I am a member of all those stupid planet groups, but they are a poor replacement for real discussion. I often consider just posting "visit agaveville.org" as often as I can until I get banned.

GS - thanks for the explanation of how this place got started. The impression I had was incorrect - I thought the same as Allen until today. Not that you would have been unjustified in starting a competing site... :)) I didn't join here for a long time, because I still felt loyalty over there. I hope that this site continues to grow, especially the cohort of real plant people as opposed to just backyard putterers like myself.
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#45

Post by Gentry's Ghost »

You called? Enough with the titanota nonsense!
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#46

Post by Stan »

Also,Brian Kimble would post about Aloe's and Agaves,I still have never seen. It really was the first board to get the all stars together. I knew some of UCBerkeleys best C&S propagators that would post under various names...
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#47

Post by Spination »

Gentry's Ghost wrote:You called? Enough with the titanota nonsense!


:lol: Priceless! Love the avatar.
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#48

Post by Spination »

I agree XW had a bevy of experienced, learned contributors over the years. In it's heyday, it was probably the #1 premier source of xeric knowledge available via internet forum.
There was also a certain degree of condescension, snobbery, and "better than". Not all, but a little more than what suits me. When what is said matters more than who says it, there's a problem. Some of it, likely born of giant egos as well, sometimes clashing. What do they say about "too many cooks"? The saying is not necessarily true, but perhaps an underlying cause of the bickering, which bothered some. Personally, I did not mind the lively debates. Presenting with passion alternate sides of an issue is not the worst way to come by knowledge, and appreciation for different aspects of issues. It's probably the "attitude" that sometimes accompanied that which made it more unpalatable for some. For me, it made it more "interesting". :lol:

Speaking of great posters over there, I especially enjoyed the intelligent contributions of the one known as "Boo Hollow". Thought I'd toss that out there to add to the list of learned contributors.

Melt - never sell short the value of backyard putterers. I am proud to consider myself in those ranks!
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#49

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Spination wrote:Melt - never sell short the value of backyard putterers. I am proud to consider myself in those ranks!
Me too, though my laziness (i.e. not seriously attempting seed growing) hampers my ability to contribute much besides words. Though, I was on the ladder yesterday pollinating A. palmeri with 'Sharkskin'! With any luck I'll get a bunch of seed, sprout a few hundred babies, then kill them all through inattention D))

I forgot about Brian Kemble and Boo Hollow (and probably others too)...that list was off the top of my head, since I obviously can't go over there and look!
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Re: Xericworld.com ?

#50

Post by Spination »

Awesome! pameri X x nigra sounds very interesting. Good luck! :U

Yes, and that fact that you (or anyone) can't go over there and look speaks volumes - Hey! Someone save this place! You got until June 8 when my domain expires! Oops, too late! :lol: Exactly what I would expect from the person and context I had exactly one exchange of communication with. I think my impression from that single conversation was dead on, in 20-20 hindsight.

Oh, and how about - "Otherwise, in a few weeks, the site will go offline and be lost forever." Now... the only info there is, after being "retired" ahead of schedule - "...Hopefully sometime in the future, it can be restored.". Which is it? "gone forever"? or ... "it can be restored". Guess what? One statement is in fact mutually exclusive of the other. Again, exactly the kind of polar opposite psychotic babble that seems perfectly consistent with the person who showed his true colors to me on a single occasion.

Either way, I don't really care. I left when I left, and never looked back. It can stay, or leave, or come back again, and I would honestly be completely unaffected one way or the other.
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