sssssssssssss.........

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Melt in the Sun
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sssssssssssss.........

#1

Post by Melt in the Sun »

That's the sound of my frying plants!

Aloe ferox, with last year's damage in the brownish circle areas and new bleaching surrounding it
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Agave pelona, can't see it well with the downsized picture but the whole thing is uniformly wrinkled
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A. macroacantha has never yellowed before, and unknown ghiesbreghtii-ish plant really suffering
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'Kelly's Monster', I gave this one some shade after seeing this
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High-elevation AZ natives aren't so tough...A. arizonica ain't happy
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Lost a couple old rosettes on this Aloe variegata
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A. filifera hybrid and A. ovatifolia look pretty sad too
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'Blue Glow' ----> golden glow?
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'Shiro ito no ohi' is not so impressive now
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A. durangensis is alive and not as bad as it looks
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'Burnt Burgundy' was transplanted last fall and wasn't quite ready for this...I think it'll be OK though
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A. montana is tougher in the sun than people think, but this is still rough.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#2

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Not everything is so bad.

A. hurteri is managing just fine
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A. "titanota" is also, much to my surprise
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Aloe claviflora is hunkered down but undamaged
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Aloe hereroensis and tomentosa were born for this
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A. azurea is a bit yellowed but should be fine. HYPER-arid, Greg said...this one is in absolutely full sun and is not irrigated at all.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#3

Post by Azuleja »

Ouch, I hope they come through it alive and grow back even tougher. Are things letting up a little next week?
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#4

Post by Stan »

Maybe a nurse plant might help? Or a jumble of dead twigs to sort of mimic the natural habitat? Its only June as Spine says...

My E."blue"? I got to move it...not liking full hot sun.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#5

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Really sorry to see this. I was concerned some of the nice AZ gardens that I admired last week would suffer during this event. Here, between Sunday (high 102 F) and yesterday (94 F), I had some leaves on a couple Andean plants turn black in a matter of hours, had a new very rare palm leaf go up in smoke, and have watched in surprise while a multi-headed potful of Agave utahensis var. eborispina that have been in the sun all spring stress out and show definite burn at leaf bases! I have never seen anything like this before here. Fortunately temps way down over next week.

Must admit, quite shocked to see in image that your A. hurteri apparently unfazed. While they do grow fully exposed in most (high-elevation) areas where they occur, it is bloody cold where they come from at night during much of the year.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#6

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Azul - yes things should let up. It is "only" June, but this is the hardest time of year - absolutely no cloud cover or humidity. Things ease once the monsoons start. Yes it's still hot (and more uncomfortable for humans, with the humidity) but plants recover a bit. I think all of these will be OK. There are lots of others in the yard that are already covered with shoestring acacia leaves...see my little aloe next to the A. filifera hybrid? No? Good!

SJ - A. hurteri is a tough one for sure. I put it in the ground after it was unfazed in a pot for a couple years. It needs a decent amount of water but as long as it has that, it seems to do fine.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#7

Post by mcvansoest »

I guess we are getting some relief in that iso 116-120F it is going to be 108-114F the coming week here in Mesa. Should be a little cooler in Tucson. However, the possibly good news of this heat spell is that it may mean the monsoon is on its way. Not necessarily tells us anything about the severity of the monsoon, but we need a significant heat spell like this (well usually it does not quite get this hot) to cause the weather change that starts bringing in the tropical moisture. We have actually seen some significant cloud formation over the mountains around the VotS the last few days, which are usually the early signs that the monsoon is starting.

I tend to not take pictures this time of year.... but I may just to get a record of how yellow/worse than yellow things got. Brought out extra shade cloth for suffering plants as this week progressed.
Even my version of A. 'emerald envy' is showing some significant stress, but the last time I checked the A. titanota-ish that is getting a lot of sun it has looked good - but that is after babying it through the three previous summers, maybe it has finally settled in.

Some of the weberis are showing it and even my non-'Mad Cow' colorata x bovicornuta hybrid that has been rock solid the previous summers is showing some signs of stress.
One thing that got a little lighter in color, but other than that has been taking the full sun like an absolute star is A. vilmoriniana.

It is interesting to see how much just a little shade helps plants deal with the crazy heat.

Now that the extreme highs are past for at least a few days I can do some watering of the potted plants, which I always hesitate to water when the highs get this crazy and the night time lows are well above 85F, but it looks like we might get back to the low 80s in terms of the night time lows for at least a few days. Our pool went from low 80s to high 80s in 4 days... that is pretty fast...
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#8

Post by Gee.S »

Temps don't matter much now -- plants are already burning and will continue along that trajectory until the monsoons kick in with some cloud cover, and that should happen within the next couple weeks -- fingers crossed!
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#9

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Gee.S wrote:Temps don't matter much now -- plants are already burning and will continue along that trajectory until the monsoons kick in with some cloud cover, and that should happen within the next couple weeks -- fingers crossed!
This is an excellent point. Once some plants burn & desiccate beyond a certain point, it makes it much more difficult for them to recover/rebound than from "normal" summer heat stress.

Was puzzled to see shade cloth on some exposed ovatifolia at the DBG last week. Guess they saw this coming.

Good luck, guys.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#10

Post by Azuleja »

mcvansoest wrote:Now that the extreme highs are past for at least a few days I can do some watering of the potted plants, which I always hesitate to water when the highs get this crazy and the night time lows are well above 85F, but it looks like we might get back to the low 80s in terms of the night time lows for at least a few days.
Is 85F a cutoff for you and is it still that hot when the monsoons come? I hope they come soon for you.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#11

Post by Gee.S »

A. ovatifolia can just about manage full sun here, if doused copiously with all manner of agua about every other day. They are really quick to yellow and wrinkle, and quick to recover after a good dousing or two. But without special care, they will turn to ash with the rest of 'em.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#12

Post by Gee.S »

Azuleja wrote:
mcvansoest wrote:Now that the extreme highs are past for at least a few days I can do some watering of the potted plants, which I always hesitate to water when the highs get this crazy and the night time lows are well above 85F, but it looks like we might get back to the low 80s in terms of the night time lows for at least a few days.
Is 85F a cutoff for you and is it still that hot when the monsoons come? I hope they come soon for you.
Agaves need cooler nighttime temps in order to respire properly.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#13

Post by mcvansoest »

Actually the monsoon often brings a week or two or three of 90+ F night time lows.... usually in August. If I even just come near an Aloe with my water hose during those days they tend to croak... Agaves also like it to be cooler at night for their respiration as Ron mentions. It is worse for plants in pots than in the ground - in the ground the soil stays cooler. Having wet roots makes the issue even worse. I think if you look into 'CAM respiration' you will be able to get a good bunch of information.

So anyway, I have a whole bunch of plants on my do not water when night time lows are 85-90+ F list. My potted plants have gotten better at taking it since I started more pumice rich soil, but the problem is that with more pumice the soil dries out faster and I have to water more frequently, which I really do not have the time for so it is a question of finding the right balance.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#14

Post by Azuleja »

I've read about CAM but was just wondering why being watered by us during hot weather can quickly become a problem while being watered by nature is fine. It does make sense that the pots will be hotter. Do most have to keep potted succulents sheltered from summer rain?
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#15

Post by Gee.S »

BTW Melt, as an aside, here is a plant that has essentially identified itself as A. hurteri. Since this pic, it grew to 5'+ across, and 3'+ tall with 150+ leaves. If we accept it as an Hiemiflorae Agave, which I always believed, and so did Greg, the only species that fits blooms is A. hurteri. I have another Agave just like yours tagged A. hurteri, but I am doubtful. It certainly won't get anywhere near the size of my other, and A. hurteri is described as a large Agave. OTOH, it could be variability within the species, but as I say, I am dubious at this point.

BTW, my bloomer is now making bulbils. Let me know if you want any.

Edit: The more I look at these pics side by each, the more resemblance I see. So I guess my only issue is its small size.
A. hurteri (young)
A. hurteri (young)
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A. hurteri
A. hurteri
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A. faux-hurteri?
A. faux-hurteri?
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#16

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Not sure about either plant, but can say that A. hurteri from the upper Río Samalá valley in Quezaltenango where Gentry took some photos for his monograph are much, much smaller than the massive blue-gray plants that populate the high elevation fir and juniper patches and morraine fields of the Altos Cuchumatanes (part of the Sierra Madre de Chiapas) in Huehuetenango.

I *think* Trelease segregated them into separate taxa, but Gentry sunk the Quezaltenangan population ("samalana") into hurteri.

Some putatively Guatemalan and Chiapan agaves here look very different to me than plants I've seen in nature and cultivated in Guatemala. Given how plastic agaves are in reponse to environment, this is hardly surprising. However I will say that plants I've seen in California ID'd as A. thomasae most certainly are misidentified.

J
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#17

Post by Gee.S »

^ That may explain it. A. hurteri has much larger flowers than other Hiemiflorae Agaves, so while others are easily confused on that basis, hurteri really stands apart, and that may have influenced Gentry's decision to merge these seemingly disparate pops. I'll say this, both of my plants pictured are similar in terms of hardiness and sun tolerance.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#18

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Just took a close look around the yard, including underneath my "shadecloth" = piles of acacia leaves. Losses so far...
- Aloe melanacantha (how do people grow this!?), fleurentiniorum, 'Minibelle', aristata (eaten), brevifolia (eaten)
- Aquilegia chrysantha (got to stop murdering these)

Stuff I'm worried about...
- Aloe suprafoliata, humilis, marlothii (big old plant, badly burned), vanbalenii, pratensis
- Agave applanata 'Cream Spike', 'Mateo', nizandensis, asperrima, kavandivi, parrasana 'Fireball', undescribed from Santiago Lachiguiri, 'Shiro ito no Ohi'

Lots of other stuff is visibly burned, but should be OK. Monsoons have arrived........right?
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#19

Post by Gee.S »

I pulled up most of my shade cloth yesterday. Plants underneath are still yellowing, but no longer glowing. It has rained here twice this week, and we twice had substantial cloud cover for a few daylight hours.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#20

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Melt in the Sun wrote:...Stuff I'm worried about...
- Aloe suprafoliata, humilis, marlothii (big old plant, badly burned), vanbalenii, pratensis
- Agave applanata 'Cream Spike', 'Mateo', nizandensis, asperrima, kavandivi, parrasana 'Fireball', undescribed from Santiago Lachiguiri
You're a brave man trialing A. kavandivi exposed there! Mine seem extremely content and fast-growing under fairly benign conditions and do not at all look like they would enjoy a stint in the oven.

Good luck with your casualties.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#21

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Stone Jaguar wrote:You're a brave man trialing A. kavandivi exposed there! Mine seem extremely content and fast-growing under fairly benign conditions and do not at all look like they would enjoy a stint in the oven.
Well it wasn't intended to be quite as exposed as it is...the heat burned off a few too many leaves from the chocolate mimosa above it.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#22

Post by DesertDweller »

Melt in the Sun wrote:Just took a close look around the yard, including underneath my "shadecloth" = piles of acacia leaves. Losses so far...
- Aloe melanacantha (how do people grow this!?), fleurentiniorum, 'Minibelle', aristata (eaten), brevifolia (eaten)
- Aquilegia chrysantha (got to stop murdering these)

Stuff I'm worried about...
- Aloe suprafoliata, humilis, marlothii (big old plant, badly burned), vanbalenii, pratensis
- Agave applanata 'Cream Spike', 'Mateo', nizandensis, asperrima, kavandivi, parrasana 'Fireball', undescribed from Santiago Lachiguiri, 'Shiro ito no Ohi'

Lots of other stuff is visibly burned, but should be OK. Monsoons have arrived........right?
One of my 'Cream Spike', despite being on a shaded porch, took a dive before I got the shade cloth up. It was not a happy camper and may be rough for a while. :?

The 'Mateo' on the porch were lit up pretty bad before the shade cloth too, but have since recovered quite a bit. Exposed, I imagine they would be pretty bad by now.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#23

Post by Azuleja »

I'm sorry to hear about the losses. I hope your A. marlothii makes it. I thought they were quite tough but I ended up moving mine out of the harsh sun because it was yellowing so much. I'm also surprised to hear A. asperrima is struggling. I thought they liked it hot and full sun.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#24

Post by mcvansoest »

I have come to learn that very few things actually like the full on low desert sun...

I have an asperrima in full sun and while it is not fully covered I have a skirt of shade cloth on/around it to protect its core. Leaves have folded in two. Give it some shade and it is perfectly fine, but seeing the giant ball of flame for 8+ hours a day, is just a little too much for it.

My 'cream spike' does the same thing every summer since it has been in the ground, but it start doing it slightly later every summer so far so I am hoping eventually it will be fine, but it will try to close up its rosette, but the leaves are so stiff that it only gets so far and then the outer rings of leaves burn and shrivel up... usually by that time it is covered so it does not get any worse. It has recovered from that every Fall so far, looking great again by the time the next summer rolls around, but as a consequence it has not grown much in size...

Generally I think I got most cover needy plants under cover in time to avert fatal damage, but some will be ugly for months (if not longer in case of a few cacti) to come.
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Re: sssssssssssss.........

#25

Post by Melt in the Sun »

McV - this summer has made me appreciate the difficulty you must face trying to grow anything at all in Phoenix! This miserable June we just endured is normal by your standards...and there is so much ugliness here. That extra 5 degrees over several weeks makes more difference than I appreciated. My 'Cream Spike' looks like you describe, and I'm going to move it this fall. Last spring my nextdoor neighbor cut down his mesquite tree, which was shading a bunch of my plants! They handled it OK last summer, but this one has been bad.

I feel a little stupid having put a bunch of stuff under that nice shade tree (mimosa), only to realize weeks later that it wasn't doing much good since the sun burned 2/3 of the farking leaves off it. The kavandivi, nizandensis, and suprafoliata were under that tree...lots of other plants were as well, which seem to be OK (including A. albopilosa, luckily). Most of the other stuff is in the ground. The only real wimp seems to be Aloe pratensis...this one is on my shaded porch and still looks like garbage.
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