Cold?

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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#51  Postby Melt in the Sun » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:37 am

We're still sitting at high twenties here for tonight, and maybe tickling freezing tomorrow. I'll probably move some pots onto the porch, bring the adenium into the kitchen, but that's about it.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#52  Postby Azuleja » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:14 am

It got to 41F in my sunroom, where I keep my sansevierias, and 27F outside on the north side of my house. Aloe Pink Blush looks quite melty around the edges and Aloe Sophie may have a little damage on the outer leaves or may be okay. I think everything else is okay, including various dyckia. I do have a bright green one that looks a bit iffy but not terrible. I'll have to get back to you on Agave Cubic. It *looks* okay, especially at the core, but it has a light sheen of frost and there are small chunks of ice frozen between its leaves.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#53  Postby Spination » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:39 am

41 F in your sunroom with 27 outside is very good, and no problem for Sans, especially if they're on the dry side.

Regarding Pink Blush, I learned the hard way (but that's not necessarily a bad thing) that the tabletop hybrids generally are not good with freeze. This would no doubt be due to their heavy on the Madagascar ancestry.
My 'Little Snow' and a 'Doran Black' I left out by accident this season for only one night @ 30ish F (maybe as high as 32 F) took on that melty look. I moved those to an unheated structure and they're no longer soft, but interestingly, the color is no longer typical for them - but more of a dull green. In time, as they recover, I'm sure new leaves coming in will once again have them looking 'normal'.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#54  Postby Melt in the Sun » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:49 am

I posted some photos on XW back in the day that showed some very discouraging color changes followed by reversion to a healthy appearance...so I'm not quite as scared of a slightly off look after cold nights. That may get me one day :)

Also - we talked back then about quick warming in the morning sun being especially damaging to frozen plants. Let me dig a bit for the photos.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#55  Postby Melt in the Sun » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:56 am

OK, some photos first of the apparent cold damage followed by recovery. The two photo sets are A. karasbergensis and A. hemmingii, taken 6 days apart in January 2013. We got to 15 degrees and these plants were (very) loosely covered with green Lowe's frost cloth. There was some permanent leaf-tip damage, but the plants all survived...which I was not expecting after seeing them in the first photos.

Looking pretty bad:
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Much better:
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Looking pretty bad:
AloeHemmingii20130118-2.JPG
AloeHemmingii20130118-2.JPG (86.96 KiB) Viewed 103 times


Much better:
DSCN8389.JPG
DSCN8389.JPG (99.06 KiB) Viewed 103 times
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#56  Postby Melt in the Sun » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:00 pm

Keep frozen plants shaded so they can thaw slowly! With the Euphorbia, morning sun is from the left. Agave pelona photos were taken moments apart; the first is the morning-sun side of the plant and the second is the shady side.

PedilantusMacrocarpus20110106.jpg
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AgavePelona20110104-1.JPG
AgavePelona20110104-1.JPG (120.1 KiB) Viewed 103 times

AgavePelona20110104-2.JPG
AgavePelona20110104-2.JPG (136.13 KiB) Viewed 103 times
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#57  Postby Spination » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Very instructive. Thanks!
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#58  Postby Gee.S » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:22 pm

Melt in the Sun wrote:Keep frozen plants shaded so they can thaw slowly! With the Euphorbia, morning sun is from the left. Agave pelona photos were taken moments apart; the first is the morning-sun side of the plant and the second is the shady side.

Yup, the quick thaw is often more damaging than the freeze. Thanks for the reminder!
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#59  Postby Stan » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:37 pm

I'm not sold on the fast thaw,slow thaw thing. I've seen it done with the same sensitive plants and had both bad things happen or not happen. Same for well hydrated vs dry. The only thing I do follow is never expose a plant to cold if you just bought it at the HD greenhouse or indoor shop. Like poinsettia's. There are things going on in a plant that can't be seen. Somethings are easy to call- Banana and Brugmansia will burn at 32f for everybody,wet or dry ,morning sun or all shade ( but not protected shade) for everybody,everywhere.

I gave up on the Adeniums..so what I have left is either hardy enough for a brief 32-34f or its large enough now that I know it will live with some leaf damage- Ti Plants,Mango,Pachypodium lamerei. So,no huge worry unless they talk about 32 and lower.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#60  Postby Gee.S » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:54 pm

^ Sold or not, I'd file this under "better safe than sorry".
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#61  Postby Azuleja » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:03 pm

I believe in the slow thaw, but sometimes location doesn't allow for it. I brought in the things that show signs of damage since tonight is supposed to be the same and I assume it's just going to make things worse. I'm not ready to totally sacrifice them. Add to the damage list Aloe 'Cynthia Giddy' and Aloe ferox. Perhaps they'll look better with time, but I really don't want to melt my Aloe ferox plants since they're seedlings from Spination, and likely to be white flowering. I hope they'll prove to be hardier with more size. As seen last year, this little tabletop aloe is a toughie and Agave pygmaea 'Dragon Toes' did well. I have duplicates, so these are sacrificial lambs.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#62  Postby Gee.S » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Sometimes that is the advantage in covering, not so much as protection from the cold, but shading them from subsequent morning sun.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#63  Postby Gee.S » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:57 pm

Here. I just took a picture of the cold. This is what cold looks like.

IMG_2264.jpg
Cold
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#64  Postby Spination » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:02 pm

Gee - no picture of cold is complete without snow-capped mountains... ::wink::

It seems that a prime benefit of covering before nightfall is that at the dewpoint, it's the sheets covering the plants that take the moisture, and the plants below are dry. Then, as the cold continues overnight and the freeze comes on, the dry plants seem to deal with it better.

Azul. These and more will be outside this winter, but I will cover them every overnight that will be 32 F or lower. As long as there's no rain involved, I just throw an old sheet over them, and that seems to do the trick.
Anyway, so far so good. There's just no room at the Inn for these, so there's really not too much choice anyway.
2017 12 21  Aloe ferox WF a.jpg
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#65  Postby Melt in the Sun » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:16 pm

Spiny - I'll take a WF ferox off your hands if you're looking to divest :) My 4' marlothii croaked for good this fall, so I've got a nice spot for it...

GS - cold looks exactly the same as hot, huh?
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#66  Postby Gee.S » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:27 pm

Less clouds when it's hot. :))

An addition of snow to the landscape would be a picture of TOO cold. D))
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#67  Postby Stan » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:10 pm

Saguaro looks suspiciously like hot weather.
I moved somethings. Still,its supposed to be 34-36f. Could be worse. Kills me to find low hills around here will be in the 40's. Some, high 40's.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#68  Postby mcvansoest » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:30 pm

Yeah, the supposed 32F tonight got upped to 35F... still took some precautions: growth tips and new branches covered on the two in the ground Pilosocerei that I have, covered the Aloe vaombe as it appears to have adjusted favorably to summer sun, I would not want to let it suffer a big winter setback. Put a cardboard box over my in the ground Adenium experiment that survived last year's wet winter. Then put santa hats on some other stuff mostly for fun to add to the lights, because I really feel like most things in the ground just need to be able to make it through nights like this. Just to be sure moved my Agave impressa onto a window sill under the patio roof and my two wet Adeniums are there too. Other Adeniums are already under the patio roof and did not get wet, but getting some good light with the sun at a low angle and a couple are flowering and still pretty wel leaved out.

The potting benches have shade cloth, but no plastic over them - except for that one rain event a bunch of nights ago, it has been dry enough that the plastic has been unnecessary. It will have to be enough for the 'cold'.
It is what it is!
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#69  Postby Gee.S » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:27 pm

^ My A. impressa has been left out to fend for itself for the past two years. It's potted, but way too big and scary to move any longer. It's never taken a lick of frost damage.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, and others walk the walk, but we stalk the stalk"
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#70  Postby Agavemonger » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:23 am

It is 40 degrees Fahrenheit at midnight here in Rancho Bernardo (a bit inland in San Diego).

It seemed quite chilly this afternoon here in San Diego; I had to wear long pants and a jacket all this afternoon. Probably the coldest day yet this fall. The Santa Ana conditions have returned, so I expect the coldest night yet since last February. I imagine that it will hit the mid thirties here early this (Friday) morning, with frost in the more Easterly low-lying inland Valleys. I feel lucky so far; it has been much warmer than usual this year. Most plants have not yet stopped growing, albeit growing slowly. We had some drizzle overnight, but clear skies this (Thursday) morning.

I am hoping we don't get an "Arctic Express" anytime soon; I imagine plants are abnormally soft for this time of year! :red:

We still have a couple of months to go with potential for hard freezes, with the next couple of weeks having a notorious reputation for "Sneaker" unexpected freezes capable of nipping un-hardened outdoor material quite severely. 28 degrees F. over the holidays can cause extreme grief; 27 or lower becomes a nightmare scenario. I remember way too many nights, in past years, staying up all night to protect frost-delicate plants. Inevitably it seems to happen on Christmas Eve or Christmas night! :cry:

Hopefully the weather service long-range prognostications are correct in predicting a warmer-than-normal winter season for Southern California. :shock:

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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#71  Postby mcvansoest » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:45 am

Gee.S wrote:^ My A. impressa has been left out to fend for itself for the past two years. It's potted, but way too big scary to move any longer. It's never taken a lick of frost damage.


Once it is in the ground I will be happy to let it fend for itself, but this is still a pretty small plant, so I figured it certainly would not hurt it...
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#72  Postby Spination » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:01 am

Was out there @ 1:30 AM, and the temp was already 30. At 3 AM, could have sworn I saw 28 F on the thermostat, but I recorded it as 29, because that's what it was at 7 AM. Anyway, from 46 F 24 hours ago, to 29 F this AM, is what I would suggest is a strong indicator of the volatility I've been seeing this December to date. That matches the difference between 12/15 7 AM of 33 F, and the very next AM of 50 F. No wonder the forecast lows have been so off, although I'll give them credit for pretty much nailing it for this last overnight.

ADDED - Danny, I have a fair number of them. I've been growing them from seed since 2014. Most of them, I deliberately stunted their growth keeping them under-potted and small while others I potted up to grow as fast as possible. The idea is I want to see at least one flower and verify they are what they're supposed to be. The reason is I could have acquired a couple from Brent Wigand in 2014 that were already flowering, but he wouldn't ship them that size - too much hassle. And, even though @ $50 each, which I thought was very fair, I wasn't going to drive 800 miles round trip to pick them up. As luck would have it, I bought seeds from someone in SoCal who had two plants from Brent, and crossed those 2 white flowering specimens together. I figured I'd have the same problem myself later on waiting for them to flower before representing them as for sure white flowering ferox - that by then they'd be problematic to ship.
Yeah, I know Brent crossed them for generations to stabilize that feature, and the two parents of my seeds were 2 of his white flowering specimens acquired by another party... but...they weren't my plants, I didn't cross them myself, and I don't have personal experience growing white flowering ferox from seed and seeing for myself the result. They should be - I expect them to be - I'd be really disappointed if they weren't... but... The bottom line is I won't know for fact until one of mine flowers and I get to see with my own eyes. Yeah... I know I'm weird that way. :)) So, I've been hanging on to them until I see the proof. The nice thing is that I have a good number of them that are small, and medium... and easy to ship, and my largest ones are easily 2 gallon size. I'm pretty sure I'll get to see the flowering proof and still have most of the seedlings all from the same batch of seeds in ship-able size. One very educational aspect of this venture to date, is seeing just how easy it is to manipulate the size of these plants purely by pot size (like - bonzai effect). Here is another photo taken yesterday of seedling-mates to the ones pictured above. These, also grown hard outside, but a whole lot smaller. I have others that are another size smaller yet.
2017 12 21  Aloe ferox WF b.jpg
2017 12 21 Aloe ferox WF b.jpg (86.66 KiB) Viewed 56 times


Here's where I've documented the progress of these seedlings
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2719&p=8552 starting with post #13

and something interesting among a couple of them noted late 2015 to early 2016
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4036&p=16573

Anyway, I did send 3 to Spain in a trade, and Azul got a couple more - so knowing I haven't lost any, there should be 65 more stashed away here and there - most quite manageable in size while I wait for confirmation from the largest ones when I get to see one flower. So, if you're interested, I could spare one. D)) Even the 1 gal ones aren't too big yet to ship. The 2 gal ones I'm keeping as I figure having a few of the largest growing improves my odds to see one flower sooner than later.

By the way, I lost my 3 largest marlothii last winter, even though they made it through the winter before. Last year, we just had to much of it spread out over 2 1/2 months, when normally, we only have to deal with the prospect of freeze late December to early January. Meanwhile, none of the ferox I had outside (just covered with an old bedsheet same as the marlothii) were lost. So, in my opinion, ferox is more cold hardy than marlothii, for what it's worth.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#73  Postby Melt in the Sun » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:04 am

30 here, no big deal I hope. I forgot all about my A. impressa - it's kinda behind another plant and I didn't even see it in the dark when I was covering the rest of the wimpy crew. I did forget to bring the adenium in, so that may get zapped a little. I'm not sure they're worth the trouble...too big too heavy too fast, but they sure are pretty for the rest of the year.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#74  Postby Azuleja » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:41 am

Last night was chillier than the night before but it should be warming up a little now. It was 28f at 11pm and 26f this morning. I guess that was appropriate for the solstice.
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Re: Cold?

Post Number:#75  Postby Stan » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:54 am

We dropped to 37 around 4am,then stayed there until 8am. Looks like more of the same coming tomorrow ,then 40's. NOA is on the conservative side so this time there for one second I saw a 33f listed for my street was just wrong,they hadn't added in that some wispy clouds would move in last night.
Boy,its cold- 39f only at 9am.

Its looking like a Agavexeric world summer..not much rains,little snow. What a bad hobby this is turning out to be- the endless "we are in a drought,don't you know?" every time I grab a hose. Hate that.
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