Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Moderator: Geoff
- Steph115
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:42 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas | Zone 8a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Seedling update. These guys have finally started to take off I think. They appear to be more mature than they should be for their leaf count because of the leaf loss during the move/sunburn. Seedling 1 is starting to develop its back "keel" already. Spiny - I know you have that trick for figuring out which direction they will spiral. If it holds in seedlings this young, then I believe seedling 1 is going to be counterclockwise. The leaf pictured looks like the keel is right in the middle, but the one before it has a clear laterality with the bigger side of the leaf on the right.
- Attachments
-
- A. polyphylla - Seedling 2
- apolyseedling2front.jpg (146.71 KiB) Viewed 2841 times
-
- A. polyphylla - Seedling 2
- apolyseedling2back.jpg (70.22 KiB) Viewed 2841 times
-
- A. polyphylla - Seedling 1
- apolyseedling1front.jpg (70.41 KiB) Viewed 2841 times
-
- A. polyphylla - Seedling 1
- apolyseedling1back.jpg (67.17 KiB) Viewed 2841 times
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5689
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:58 pm
- Location: Hayward ca/SF bay area
- USDA Zone: 10a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
You've gotten that far since you started posting about it?..ok,I have to say it- wow.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
I'm going to 2nd that. All in favor... aye. Motion passed.
- Azuleja
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:23 am
- Location: CA | Zone 9a | Chaparral
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Really nice, Steph. Happy birthday too *<:-)
- Steph115
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:42 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas | Zone 8a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Awww you guys thank you for the kind words!
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5689
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:58 pm
- Location: Hayward ca/SF bay area
- USDA Zone: 10a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Mine, I think is as large as they get for still not spiraling. If its the worlds first non spiraling A.polyphylla? How luck am I ?
- Attachments
-
- IMG_7663.JPG (154.97 KiB) Viewed 2782 times
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
see post 73
Here's your photo, with my scribbling. Plain as day. 5 spirals, just like it's supposed to.
True, it will become much more obvious in time, but I can see it quite clearly.
Here's your photo, with my scribbling. Plain as day. 5 spirals, just like it's supposed to.
True, it will become much more obvious in time, but I can see it quite clearly.
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5689
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:58 pm
- Location: Hayward ca/SF bay area
- USDA Zone: 10a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
It might need a larger pot too. If I want to keep it long term and keep growing. I wonder if anybody ever heard of the perfect size pot for a large A.polyphylla? Maybe 24"? and deep?
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:46 am
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
30" x 18" (75 cm x 45 cm) square side 30gl (114 lt). This is the main size that AB uses for his oldest flowering plants in Santa Cruz. I suppose if you had your druthers, would add another 6" to the diameter for ease of watering. Having recently moved one, can assure you they are "very heavy" even with a normally-hydrated plant and fairly dry bark-based mix.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Just under a month since the last photo update of this plant's growth. Last time - 11 leaves visible from the taped leaf, now 13...and the taped leaf is now way on the outside diameter of the rosette. No growth hiatus thus far all summer long. Just gave it an extra good watering this AM, because today's going to be a real test. The forecast says 109 today, and that should be the hottest this plant has seen. I have not moved it, nor will I give it any extra protection today. It gets early sun, then a bit of filtered shade through mid morning, then full sun * again all afternoon.
Just a quick count of leaves from the taped leaf back in April to the center (so all relatively new leaves from this year) - 5 spirals X 13 = 65 leaves, not including any lower leaves going downwards to the soil line. * well, full sun mitigated by smoke filled skies (big northern Cal wildfire)
Just a quick count of leaves from the taped leaf back in April to the center (so all relatively new leaves from this year) - 5 spirals X 13 = 65 leaves, not including any lower leaves going downwards to the soil line. * well, full sun mitigated by smoke filled skies (big northern Cal wildfire)
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5689
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:58 pm
- Location: Hayward ca/SF bay area
- USDA Zone: 10a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
That's about a half barrel size. 50+ gallons Worth it. I would though use some thing plastic.Stone Jaguar wrote:30" x 18" (75 cm x 45 cm) square side 30gl (114 lt). This is the main size that AB uses for his oldest flowering plants in Santa Cruz. I suppose if you had your druthers, would add another 6" to the diameter for ease of watering. Having recently moved one, can assure you they are "very heavy" even with a normally-hydrated plant and fairly dry bark-based mix.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:46 am
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Yes, these are heavy-duty black plastic; some with reflective aluminum covers to keep pots cooler.
- Steph115
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:42 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas | Zone 8a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Spiny youre a brave man. I respect you standing firmly behind your hypothesis that water saves these guys from the heat.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Brave, or stupid.
Well, I'm confident because the plant has had this whole year to acclimate to it's place in the sun; as the days got longer, and now since they've been getting shorter after the 6/21 solstice. It's 2 PM, feels very hot (thermometer reads 104 in the shade), but I know it will heat up more before 5-6. Sun beating down on it, looks totally fine. I'm really not expecting a problem. The big deal is there's a white plastic skirt around the pot, which keeps the pot from heating up from anything other than ambient temperature. Soil is moist (so also cooler) from this AM's watering, no dark colored pot to absorb extra heat and cook the roots. I'll be completely shocked if the plant looks one iota different tomorrow AM.
Well, I'm confident because the plant has had this whole year to acclimate to it's place in the sun; as the days got longer, and now since they've been getting shorter after the 6/21 solstice. It's 2 PM, feels very hot (thermometer reads 104 in the shade), but I know it will heat up more before 5-6. Sun beating down on it, looks totally fine. I'm really not expecting a problem. The big deal is there's a white plastic skirt around the pot, which keeps the pot from heating up from anything other than ambient temperature. Soil is moist (so also cooler) from this AM's watering, no dark colored pot to absorb extra heat and cook the roots. I'll be completely shocked if the plant looks one iota different tomorrow AM.
- Steph115
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:42 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas | Zone 8a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
I believe it. Your experience with these guys is the main reason I feel I have a shot at growing them in Dallas.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
I'm almost disappointed. The temps topped out here @ 106 @ 3PM. Plant completely unfazed. Perhaps the real test tomorrow with 109 forecast again. Even if it makes it this time, I still don't expect a problem.
- Azuleja
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:23 am
- Location: CA | Zone 9a | Chaparral
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Which fire are you referring to, Spiney? I saw the Oroville fire from the air recently and there was an even larger one I could see to the north but I'm not sure what it was. There are two burning here and the air has been thick with smoke.
Brave of you to test your plant in the afternoon full sun. I hope it passes with flying colors.
Brave of you to test your plant in the afternoon full sun. I hope it passes with flying colors.
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:46 am
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
"When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers". Good luck with this experiment.
Mine - field and pot plants - all got temporary shadecloth screens yesterday since I only consciously gamble at cards. You know, "An ounce of prevention..." The fact that a plant can handle an extreme heat event a few times doesn't mean it's good for it in the long run and should not be mitigated if feasible and cost effective. Please see MitS' images of his recent large ovatifolia loss for evidence that the damage can manifest itself down the road.
Mine - field and pot plants - all got temporary shadecloth screens yesterday since I only consciously gamble at cards. You know, "An ounce of prevention..." The fact that a plant can handle an extreme heat event a few times doesn't mean it's good for it in the long run and should not be mitigated if feasible and cost effective. Please see MitS' images of his recent large ovatifolia loss for evidence that the damage can manifest itself down the road.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Azul, I believe they're call it the Ponderosa fire, or at least that's all I could find that seemed relevant to us here. 2 days now of smoky dingy air. In the valley here we can usually see the hills in every direction. Pretty much now it's all just murky shadows in the distance.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incident ... Index/1783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
So, the 106 high for Friday and 107 high for Saturday didn't bother the big polyphylla at all. Nothing has changed, other than I can now see leaf #14 in the very center of the rosette from my taped leaf, which makes me think perhaps it might have actually grown at an increased rate the last couple of days, though I guess that's debatable. The little bit of growth I can actually notice since that last photo a couple of days ago might have happened just like that anyway...
In natural habitat, these plants in high altitude are subject to more intense UV than what they're getting here. The difference is the heat, which at high elevations is cooler. My observation then with my experience this last year is that so long as the plant is acclimated to the full sun situation gradually, the increased light is not a problem. With my daily AM watering, and no dark color of pot subject to heating by the sun's rays to cook the roots, I'm not having any problem at all that I can see.
The only reason I can think of as to why my plants can handle higher than 100 temps in full sun without issue as compared to somewhere else, and contrary to "conventional wisdom" regarding the climate requirements for A. polyphylla, is that our micro-climate includes significant nighttime cooling. From 106/7 high, wer'e cooling down to the low 70's at least, an excess of a 30 degree swing. So, normal CAM function is not interrupted, and I would surmise that is the all important factor as to why daytime temps in excess of 100, even in full sun, has not presented any issue or concerns.
In natural habitat, these plants in high altitude are subject to more intense UV than what they're getting here. The difference is the heat, which at high elevations is cooler. My observation then with my experience this last year is that so long as the plant is acclimated to the full sun situation gradually, the increased light is not a problem. With my daily AM watering, and no dark color of pot subject to heating by the sun's rays to cook the roots, I'm not having any problem at all that I can see.
The only reason I can think of as to why my plants can handle higher than 100 temps in full sun without issue as compared to somewhere else, and contrary to "conventional wisdom" regarding the climate requirements for A. polyphylla, is that our micro-climate includes significant nighttime cooling. From 106/7 high, wer'e cooling down to the low 70's at least, an excess of a 30 degree swing. So, normal CAM function is not interrupted, and I would surmise that is the all important factor as to why daytime temps in excess of 100, even in full sun, has not presented any issue or concerns.
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Another month gone by, and the current leaf count is 16 (from my piece of tape marker on the leaf which is now way on the outside edge of the rosette. Looks to be averaging 2-3 new leaves adding to the rosette from the core (per spiral). 5 spirals, X 3 leaves, is actually 15 new leaves in total to the rosette. The purpose of this pictorial record is to document this plant's growth. Does it shut down at any time during the year... go into "dormancy"? Not since I've started this thread... but there's still a way to go before I've documented a full year. One point of interest though. If one were to expect a shut down or slow down of growth, one might assume it would be during the hottest, most difficult conditions. From April to October, no growth stoppage detected at all. We'll see what happens during winter.
- Steph115
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:42 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas | Zone 8a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Spiny - your A.p. just gets more and more breathtaking every time you post. I love the blue tone it has in that lighting. Also, I'm not sure the rosette can become any tighter (although I've thought that before). And I agree about dormancy - I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did better during your winters. Are you planning to protect it at all from rain?
Here are some photos of my seedlings - now 8 months old. I can't believe how big they're getting. I count 13/15 leaves total if I count allllll the way to the center where just the tip is poking out
Here are some photos of my seedlings - now 8 months old. I can't believe how big they're getting. I count 13/15 leaves total if I count allllll the way to the center where just the tip is poking out
- Attachments
-
- A. polyphylla - seedling 1
- Apoly1.jpg (72.89 KiB) Viewed 2653 times
-
- A. polyphylla - seedling 1
- Apoly2.jpg (64.87 KiB) Viewed 2653 times
-
- A. polyphylla - seedling 2
- Apoly3.jpg (80.24 KiB) Viewed 2653 times
-
- A. polyphylla - seedling 2
- Apoly4.jpg (61.81 KiB) Viewed 2653 times
- Spination
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5266
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am
- Location: Sonoma, Ca.
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
Lovely! I think your seedlings look nicer and better than any I ever grew at that age. What all you are going, you are doing it right. Awesome job!
I think the blue hue is a combination of thicker leaves (I think as they thicken, less light penetrates the leaves and they appear darker) and when I took that photo, it was early AM with the sun at a low angle to the East.
Here are my 3 largest seedlings I've grown, also outside now for several months only feet away from the large one. The largest of the 3 germinated April 2014, and was outside as a trial for a couple months longer than the other two, which germinated Aug 2015. You can see the sun's effect on the tightness of the rosette at the center. New leaves with stronger light more compact than older leaves when they were in the greenhouse kit. The smallest of the 3 was the last to go out into the sun by a month as I wanted to see how it went with the 2nd largest one first. So, when you look at the 3, from smallest to largest, it's like an illustration of the sun's effect over time on the new leaf form vs the old leaf form. .
Since water isn't an issue for these, I do intend to leave the big guy out during the winter, but I'm going to tilt the pot so water doesn't collect in the center of the rosette. As I recall, they tend to grow at a tilt in habitat also. I'll be watching the forecasts, and I think I will put a clear plastic sheet over it if I see it's going to be freezing. I'll poke a few bamboo stakes around the perimeter of the pot, and drape the plastic so it's not touching the leaves. The three smaller ones will go back inside only if I know the lows are going to be freezing. On sunny days, they will go outside as the form of new leaves will benefit from stronger light.
My guess is they will continue to grow during the winter, but purely from a logical point of view, I think the growth rate should slow down. The reasoning is that chlorophyll activity that creates energy from sunlight will be for fewer hours per day, so it seems that should also decrease the amount of growth. I'm not absolutely sure, but I will continue to take new photos and post them each month and keep up the leaf count so we'll all know what happens exactly.
I think the blue hue is a combination of thicker leaves (I think as they thicken, less light penetrates the leaves and they appear darker) and when I took that photo, it was early AM with the sun at a low angle to the East.
Here are my 3 largest seedlings I've grown, also outside now for several months only feet away from the large one. The largest of the 3 germinated April 2014, and was outside as a trial for a couple months longer than the other two, which germinated Aug 2015. You can see the sun's effect on the tightness of the rosette at the center. New leaves with stronger light more compact than older leaves when they were in the greenhouse kit. The smallest of the 3 was the last to go out into the sun by a month as I wanted to see how it went with the 2nd largest one first. So, when you look at the 3, from smallest to largest, it's like an illustration of the sun's effect over time on the new leaf form vs the old leaf form. .
Since water isn't an issue for these, I do intend to leave the big guy out during the winter, but I'm going to tilt the pot so water doesn't collect in the center of the rosette. As I recall, they tend to grow at a tilt in habitat also. I'll be watching the forecasts, and I think I will put a clear plastic sheet over it if I see it's going to be freezing. I'll poke a few bamboo stakes around the perimeter of the pot, and drape the plastic so it's not touching the leaves. The three smaller ones will go back inside only if I know the lows are going to be freezing. On sunny days, they will go outside as the form of new leaves will benefit from stronger light.
My guess is they will continue to grow during the winter, but purely from a logical point of view, I think the growth rate should slow down. The reasoning is that chlorophyll activity that creates energy from sunlight will be for fewer hours per day, so it seems that should also decrease the amount of growth. I'm not absolutely sure, but I will continue to take new photos and post them each month and keep up the leaf count so we'll all know what happens exactly.
-
- Ready to Bolt
- Posts: 5689
- Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:58 pm
- Location: Hayward ca/SF bay area
- USDA Zone: 10a
Re: Can't seem to keep up with this Aloe polyphylla's growth
The pot I used has three legs under it. Twice now,its fallen over. Time to go basic nursery pot.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.