Lav. 1970 action
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- Azuleja
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Lav. 1970 action
At first I wasn't sure what was going on here, but now it's clear that I may be getting a bloom spike. Seems weird that it's growing as the weather is getting cold, so I hope it doesn't change its mind.
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- Gee.S
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Sans (at least most of 'em) are winter bloomers. If anything, your guy strikes me as a little early. But good for you, maybe the cycle will complete before first freeze kills the stalk.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Spination
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
The timing does seem a little off to me.
One of my S. halli bloomed fully in Sept. 2016.
S. suffruticosa and S. 'Boncel' in April 2017.
I failed to get proper pics, but S. fransissi bloomed circa Aug. 2016. I have a pic from end of Aug 2016 with nothing but a dried bloom stalk left over, so it was apparently blooming in the month or two prior.
Nothing so far for me during our winter months, but perhaps I'll run into that too in the future.
Notable as well - "winter" in Africa is circa June, and much warmer than our winters, and it is especially noteworthy that using Kenya as a proxy, and using Nairobi for stats easily available, the short days of winter (June 21 Solstice) are 12:03 hours short, and the long days of summer (Dec 21 Solstice) are 12:12 hours long. In other words, that close to the equator (89 miles away http://dateandtime.info/distanceequator.php?id=184745" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), days and nights are about the same year round, implying tropical climate.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/kenya/nairobi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As far as the conditions mine are grown in - natural daylight hours with some augmentation early and late using LED making the most difference during our short days of winter, but winter lows are mitigated in a greenhouse kit with a heater that prevents anything near frost or freezing. We had 32 degrees as of 7AM today, and stepping into the greenhouse kit, it was quite comfortable - not hot, but far from the cold right outside.
Kenya (Nairobi) lows year round - 52-59F highs 72-82F . The driest months are circa their winter - June-Sept.
http://www.holiday-weather.com/nairobi/averages/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It would be hard to argue that the blooming trigger is a change in photoperiod If daylight hours don't change much in habitat. Same for temps which are also fairly constant. The only other variable is rainfall as a possible trigger, and if these plants do bloom in "winter" in habitat, then perhaps the drier months are the trigger? Sheer speculation on my part which is not supported by my blooming events so far - but then the daylight hours here fluctuate a great deal between summer and winter, as do temps. I keep mine relatively dry in winter (our real winter circa December), and no blooms for me so far. Blooms so far April-Aug, when they are well watered. Based on my own observations so far growing in conditions far different from habitat conditions, I have no clear idea what triggers blooming for these plants.
Perhaps Marlon, who grows in South American tropical climate can provide some enlightening information regarding bloom times in conditions that should be roughly the same as African habitat.
Edit
OH! I forgot to say Congrats Azul on the blooming. Would love to see updates of the flowering process.
One of my S. halli bloomed fully in Sept. 2016.
S. suffruticosa and S. 'Boncel' in April 2017.
I failed to get proper pics, but S. fransissi bloomed circa Aug. 2016. I have a pic from end of Aug 2016 with nothing but a dried bloom stalk left over, so it was apparently blooming in the month or two prior.
Nothing so far for me during our winter months, but perhaps I'll run into that too in the future.
Notable as well - "winter" in Africa is circa June, and much warmer than our winters, and it is especially noteworthy that using Kenya as a proxy, and using Nairobi for stats easily available, the short days of winter (June 21 Solstice) are 12:03 hours short, and the long days of summer (Dec 21 Solstice) are 12:12 hours long. In other words, that close to the equator (89 miles away http://dateandtime.info/distanceequator.php?id=184745" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), days and nights are about the same year round, implying tropical climate.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/kenya/nairobi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As far as the conditions mine are grown in - natural daylight hours with some augmentation early and late using LED making the most difference during our short days of winter, but winter lows are mitigated in a greenhouse kit with a heater that prevents anything near frost or freezing. We had 32 degrees as of 7AM today, and stepping into the greenhouse kit, it was quite comfortable - not hot, but far from the cold right outside.
Kenya (Nairobi) lows year round - 52-59F highs 72-82F . The driest months are circa their winter - June-Sept.
http://www.holiday-weather.com/nairobi/averages/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It would be hard to argue that the blooming trigger is a change in photoperiod If daylight hours don't change much in habitat. Same for temps which are also fairly constant. The only other variable is rainfall as a possible trigger, and if these plants do bloom in "winter" in habitat, then perhaps the drier months are the trigger? Sheer speculation on my part which is not supported by my blooming events so far - but then the daylight hours here fluctuate a great deal between summer and winter, as do temps. I keep mine relatively dry in winter (our real winter circa December), and no blooms for me so far. Blooms so far April-Aug, when they are well watered. Based on my own observations so far growing in conditions far different from habitat conditions, I have no clear idea what triggers blooming for these plants.
Perhaps Marlon, who grows in South American tropical climate can provide some enlightening information regarding bloom times in conditions that should be roughly the same as African habitat.
Edit
OH! I forgot to say Congrats Azul on the blooming. Would love to see updates of the flowering process.
- Gee.S
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
I would guess a lot of tropical Sans don't experience winter at all, at least not winter as we experience it.
I've only had trifasciata and cylindrica bloom, and both do their things in Dec-Jan.
BTW, blooms are not especially impressive to look at, but they are wonderfully fragrant -- like orange blossom fragrant.
I've only had trifasciata and cylindrica bloom, and both do their things in Dec-Jan.
BTW, blooms are not especially impressive to look at, but they are wonderfully fragrant -- like orange blossom fragrant.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Azuleja
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
I'll definitely update as it grows. Do you know if it will resume growth from the same point when it's done?
- Spination
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Yes, I agree. Summer and Winter have little of the meaning there in habitat compared to what we know and experience in the northern hemisphere - which is why I think it's important when folks mention for various plants "summer/winter grower" etc. to fully understand and appreciate the actual conditions in habitat. It appears the main seasonal difference there is the amount of rainfall, and that's about it. 12 hours days and nights year long aren't going to distinguish the season, nor rather constant temperatures either.
S. trifasciata has never had much appeal to me. One species, and a million variations. OK, maybe not a million. Anyway, the 2 or 3 of those I have have never bloomed to date.
The most interesting blooms I saw were the S. halli which bloomed. It was a very interesting cluster that seemed to grow right out of the soil near the base of the plant, and not out of the plant itself as we are most accustomed to seeing. I'd say that was impressive in itself, but other bloomers were rather bland looking white and small flowers.
Here's the S. Boncel. Sure, it was nice to see it bloom, but not super impressive. I think the main interest in seeing the bloom formation is in how it relates to the identification of the species.
S. trifasciata has never had much appeal to me. One species, and a million variations. OK, maybe not a million. Anyway, the 2 or 3 of those I have have never bloomed to date.
The most interesting blooms I saw were the S. halli which bloomed. It was a very interesting cluster that seemed to grow right out of the soil near the base of the plant, and not out of the plant itself as we are most accustomed to seeing. I'd say that was impressive in itself, but other bloomers were rather bland looking white and small flowers.
Here's the S. Boncel. Sure, it was nice to see it bloom, but not super impressive. I think the main interest in seeing the bloom formation is in how it relates to the identification of the species.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
It's my feeling now that Marlon educated us on his plants' year-round growth in tropical growing conditions - that growth is a function of year long amenable temperatures and constant lighting. We, growing in northern climes have introduced a new variable with cold temps, and short vs long days compared to habitat... so without modifications (lights for winter increasing the photoperiod and heat in the winter to guard against cold), growth does appear to be affected. Even though I do mitigate the effects of winter, it's definitely not the same as the favorable conditions they receive spring through fall - so growth does seem to slow down. I would guess that the more and better one compensates for cold and shorter days, the more these plants likely exhibit constant and uninterrupted growth.Azuleja wrote:I'll definitely update as it grows. Do you know if it will resume growth from the same point when it's done?
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
When my cylindricas bloom, that's the end of it -- no more leaves for you, but that's what cylindrica does whether it blooms or not. Three or four leaves, then onto the next one.Azuleja wrote:I'll definitely update as it grows. Do you know if it will resume growth from the same point when it's done?
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Lucky you! Things should move very quickly from here.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
- Azuleja
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Thank you, I realize it's a bit dehydrated looking but I've been afraid to overwater it in cool weather.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Thanks, Steph! Our nighttime temps have been in the 30's and my sunroom has been getting down around 50. We're supposed to hit 32 tonight.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
So, this and Marlon's experience with year round growth in tropical climate has been on my mind. This is the first winter that I am watering more (still not even close to summer liberal watering), and only because I've been keeping them warmer during this winter. In the past, my goal was just to keep them from freezing by preventing them from getting below 40F; this winter they're even warmer than that, and as such, to keep them from getting too dry, I'm watering when I feel they need it. The difference is between nearly every day during the warm months, to at least weekly now. I think what I'm going to find is they're going to resume normal growing sooner when spring like conditions return... but we'll see.Azuleja wrote:Thank you, I realize it's a bit dehydrated looking but I've been afraid to overwater it in cool weather.
In a tropical climate, of course temps are consistently warm year round, but also there's no big difference in photoperiod either between winter and the rest of the year. So, I think warmth is a big deal, but I'm not sure that just providing more warmth during the short days of northern winters is actually enough to completely eliminate a dormancy like state as I've become accustomed to, but I think it will make a difference.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Here it is right now. I watered it sometime after the last photo I posted and then laid off because it got cold. Sunroom was 50F last night but got down to 39F when we had that cold snap that damaged my S. pinguicula.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Thanks! All the better for being adaptable to the conditions I have. My pinguicula was pretty awesome too. Only the stilt pup looks damaged so I suppose the main plant will replace it eventually. I don't plan on removing it in case it's going to do something interesting. I'm just assuming this is cold damage. I don't think it's rot from overwatering because I haven't watered it in quite a while. Any thoughts?
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
I agree with you, that it's cold damage. I think those are particularly sensitive, and it's the only one I've ever lost directly due to cold. It started out looking like yours, but admittedly I had it outside, so I'm sure it got hit a lot harder...anyway, it just kept getting worse looking, and finally it was pretty clear at some point it was dead. I think if yours is holding, and not looking worse, then you should be OK. Based on what happened, I would say if you knew it was going to face similar cold again in the future, even though it's in a protected space, you could just lay a towel over it overnight and that would probably do it.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
It doesn't seem like the flowers are going to all be open at once so this may be as good as it gets. It's certainly bringing me a smile on this cool gray day.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
That is looking quite lovely, and the inflorescence coming out of the center seems to accentuate the great symmetry of the plant. Very nice flowers, and a refreshing departure from the usual plain white I've seen on any of mine to date.
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Azuleja, here's the one I got thanks to you! Arrived today... Thanks for the heads-up on this plant. Beautiful condition, and at a great price.
Stolons coming out at the base, and something new I haven't seen before either...stolons also coming out between a couple of different leaves - on the same plant! PS - I like how you potted yours higher up in the pot with some of those roots showing. Guess I could have done that too - maybe next time...
Stolons coming out at the base, and something new I haven't seen before either...stolons also coming out between a couple of different leaves - on the same plant! PS - I like how you potted yours higher up in the pot with some of those roots showing. Guess I could have done that too - maybe next time...
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
Thanks. Yes, it's going to be a wild spectacle in time. My other stoloniferous Sans (suffruticosa, bella) have stolons coming out in a very much more symmetrical pattern, which has a certain pleasing appearance. This one clearly will be unbalanced, with stuff coming out here, and there... in no particular symmetrical pattern. Odd too because the original rosette is very symmetrical with that fan shape, but will then have a very different flavor later on when those stolons stretch out and feature their own new rosettes on the ends - here and there. Whimsical, and fun!
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Re: Lav. 1970 action
I love it! Do not be afraid to unpot it and reset it if you want it raised up higher. That's what I did and it certainly didn't bother the plant. These look insanely cool when they have full sized fans branching out from the center. Yours is well on its way.