Agave mite?

Use this section to discuss matters relating to any and all issues involving horticultural pest and disease management. This is where one posts unknown pest/damage photos for ID help.
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Re: Agave mite?

#51

Post by Gee.S »

My rule is "three clean leaves", and that may be overkill, or may not, but I am confident it is enough. And what I mean by three clean leaves is this: If you have 100 Agaves, of which 25 are symptomatic, keep spraying all 100 until all afflicted 25 have three clean leaves, sans no newly symptomatic plants, of course.

One other small point. In my part of the world, Agave mite is naturally in habitat, and I frequent these places, but even if I didn't, mites go airborne, so there is always some small chance of infestation or recurrence from natural conditions beyond our control. It's a messy world out there, and sometimes we're going to get dumped on through no fault of our own.
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"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

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Re: Agave mite?

#52

Post by Gee.S »

Stone Jaguar wrote:Howdy, all.

I had not intended to wade in here, since I thought the forum had more or less resolved how to control these critters. Because it appears that there is still some misunderstanding about a recommended and widely-accepted protocol that calls for at least three miticides known to be effective against eriophyid mites to be used in rotation in order to eradicate (at least until the next exposure) it seems worth repeating.

Of products discussed and readily a available to nurserymen and dedicated amateur growers in the US, these would include Pylon, Forbid, abamectin (Avid and generics) and Sevin.

Personally, I assume every new aloe, agave and related plant that I acquire to be infested no matter how clean they look, and quarantine AND treat accordingly. In my case this involves at least two full cycles x three unrelated products at recommended app rates. A single application of one or two miticides is not accepted in any peer-reviewed study that I have read as being an effective control measure.

Although Gee and others have provided excellent photographic guides and visual “tells” indicating an eriophyid infestation (controlled or active) in agaves and aloes, positive proof requires a leaf section and a good microscope. Unlike spider mites, which are often visible to the naked eye or identifiable to species with a low magnification hand lens, AFAIK, eriophyids require >100x to be ID’d with certainty. Over the past 18 months I have received very suspect plants from nurseries I like and patronize frequently. As a long time grower, I am sympathetic to things occasionally slipping through the cracks, even by the best. While I understand and sympathize with people getting pissed when they receive substandard plants, I would be reluctant to make specific claims about eriophyid infestations without having proof beyond symptomatic evidence.
For my part, I have learned via considerable experience what combination of possibly subtle symptoms equate to a plant that can be restored to good appearance and health via miticide. Although there is no single symptom that would lead me to conclude eriophyid mite, certain single symptoms would raise my suspicions. And in the end, I suppose I cannot say with certainty whether miticides restore these plants by eliminating mites or some enigmatic execution of voodoo. But nor do I especially care. :))
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#53

Post by Spination »

DD - good to know they use Avid. That indeed is reassuring.

Jay - you are right that unless it is confirmed via dissection and microscope, one probably should not make a specific definitive claim. However, if it looks like a duck...walks like a duck... well, you get the drift. In this situation of mine, I have a plant that exhibits the same type of damage, and in the same way as when I dealt with the situation several years ago now. The only difference, this plant is WAAAAY worse!!!! The first plant I had which alerted me that something was wrong, had a single area of damage going in to the core, and an otherwise good looking plant. Of course, it only got worse after it arrived... This time around, there's really nothing much to point to in the way of good, because there is no area that isn't damaged. As suggested by others earlier in the discussion, it looks like the core isn't that bad, looks like maybe it's getting better...and the truest thing said is that at least it isn't dead. :lol:

I do want to mention that PDN contacted me via PM here, and insisted on sending me another plant. I did not contact them, and did not intend to. I would have to repeat as I have before in other threads regarding PDN, is that they do have great customer service. I've dealt with businesses (not necessarily plants) where the go-to line is to deny, and refuse (at least initially) responsibility, and do nothing. PDN is the opposite. Their M.O. is to rectify problems, and make things right. There is no denying they are a reputable business. Nobody's perfect, as they say - $hit happens... the difference is how folks deal with it after the fact. Clearly, they care.
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Re: Agave mite?

#54

Post by Stone Jaguar »

Tom, great to read that your faith in PDN - by all accounts an excellent nursery with a very, very highly-regarded owner - has been vindicated.

FWIW, I agree that the plant you showed is a pretty good example of what to be alarmed about. Given the value, numbers and proximity of plants in your collection, I would have probably been even more disappointed than you were when you opened the box. I just wanted to clarify that growers with large, painstakingly assembled collections of aloes and agaves+ should treat everything new, no matter how visually flawless, as a potential ”Typhoid Mary”.

BTW, Gee’s acid test of everything pushing several clean leaves prior to assuming everything’s cool seems like very good advice to all.

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Re: Agave mite?

#55

Post by Gee.S »

Image
Before
After
After
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#56

Post by Spination »

The "after" is one awesome plant. Not a quick fix, but it does show that with treatment, and patience... ::wink::
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Re: Agave mite?

#57

Post by Gee.S »

You know, if you didn't look too close, that parryi looked pretty nice within about a year. Now, it was about three years before it looked pristine.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#58

Post by Spination »

In conclusion, PDN sent me a lovely replacement plant. It just showed up on the doorstep today, somewhat unexpectedly. It's the next younger generation, but in perfect condition. I'm thinking what happened was they ran out of the ones advertised, and someone expediently picked one which was part of a batch in recovery from damage, and I'm sure not intended to be sold. Anyway, they went out of their way to send a replacement, even though I didn't ask - because that's how they roll. They got wind of the situation, and initiated their own efforts to fix it. I'd have to say that's the hallmark of an excellent reputation.
Anyway, here's the little beauty, and the markings on it sure look interesting. Don't know if that's just how they look when small, or if those stripes are something special, but it will be fun to watch it grow and see how it turns out.
2018 01 17 A potatorum Verschaffeltii Iriri Raijin Nishiki a.jpg
2018 01 17 A potatorum Verschaffeltii Iriri Raijin Nishiki a.jpg (61.38 KiB) Viewed 8307 times
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Re: Agave mite?

#59

Post by jthiel23 »

Is this from mites?
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Re: Agave mite?

#60

Post by Gee.S »

Sorry to say, but yes.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#61

Post by Spination »

Update - I had repeatedly sprayed the heck out of that plant, and it subsequently spent most of the following time with lower leaves drying up. I just cut off all the dry ones at the bottom yesterday, and here's what's left. The core leaves unopened show no damage now, and it looks like the last of damage shows as more or less minor blemishes on the remaining leaves. Once those outer 4 leaves are replaced, it should look perfect.
2018 06 20 A potatorum Verschaffeltii IRN PDN #1 b.jpg
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2018 06 20 A potatorum Verschaffeltii IRN PDN #1 d.jpg
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In the meantime, the replacement plant is doing very well.
2018 06 20 A potatorum Verschaffeltii IRN PDN #2 a.jpg
2018 06 20 A potatorum Verschaffeltii IRN PDN #2 a.jpg (162.3 KiB) Viewed 8210 times
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Re: Agave mite?

#62

Post by Spination »

OK, so here's an update on that plant. This photo is 9 months after I got it. I've been spraying it monthly since it arrived, and will continue to do so until the plant has completely grown out of all damage. Most of the leaves visible in the early photos (post 25 and 39) are dead and gone, and most of the leaves visible in this photo are new. From the mark visible on the outside core, I estimate that in another year, it will be "clean"... finally. It is still in quarantine...
2018 08 17 A Ikiri Raijin Nishiki #1 mite damage still b.jpg
2018 08 17 A Ikiri Raijin Nishiki #1 mite damage still b.jpg (97.54 KiB) Viewed 8189 times
This is why the smart move is to destroy the plant from the get-go and move on. Is two years before a beautiful plant is there to behold worth it, not to mention the hassle of spraying and spraying and spraying? I think not.... To their credit, they did send me the small replacement plant. That plant is growing, and looks perfect. One can not knock their customer service dealing with problems and willingness to make something right.
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Re: Agave mite?

#63

Post by Gee.S »

I'm guessing it isn't in the greatest spot to encourage growth, being quarantined and all. Amazing it still looks that bad all these months later. It should get to a point where it starts growing faster, but I agree -- you're looking at next year some time. It does look a LOT better than it did.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#64

Post by Spination »

Yes. I think that underscores just how badly that plant and the entire group of them that they said had a "mealy bug" issue got hit with the mites. Even my most recent photo shows absolutely clear evidence of mite damage, and that's 9 months after the fact being bombarded with Avid. I over-sprayed it so much initially (drenched it with the product repeatedly) that the plant looked like it was going to die. All those deformed leaves in the early photos dried up after which I cut them off and destroyed the remnants. That damage I'm looking at now had to be pretty deep to be showing on an outside core leaf now...

Although the plant does really look so much better, I'm still shocked by the damage on the outer core right now. If I ever confront a situation like this again (someone mails me a mite damaged/infested plant), it's probably going to get destroyed and I won't waste my time on it. Either that or I will send it back immediately as a return if they want it back. I guess I'll chock this one last time dealing with this issue in any way/shape/form as an experiment I won't want to repeat. Even though the plant was $65 and seen being sold for much more elsewhere, it's still not valuable enough to warrant this kind of time (because I'm still looking at another year before it's a clean-looking plant) invested.
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Re: Agave mite?

#65

Post by Gee.S »

True, still going through the process is an interesting education, isn't it? I would keep it quarantined until it shows three clean leaves.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#66

Post by Spination »

Sure is.

The interesting thing to me is I went through my own personal experience/learning curve back in 2012. A year of spraying rotational style with Forbid 4F and Avid eradicated the problem. I hit the culprits very hard, and every single other plant in my collection not showing any issues also got treated. Since then, 5 years of clean plants in my collection proved to me that I did in fact wipe out the mites. The other important thing to disclose, is that all acquisitions in that time frame looked like clean agave on arrival, but got precautionary treatment with Avid anyway. Perhaps they were all fine, but if they were carrying yet unseen mite issues, I'll never know if I stopped them dead in their tracks before they really got started (which is the point anyway), or if they were unaffected.

Also, other than this plant in question, I pretty much don't buy new agave anymore. This one was in Dec of 2017, and the one before that (variegated Kutsugen No Mai Ogi) from Thailand came much earlier in that year. That's another good way to avoid reintroducing the problem within a collection. Just don't acquire any more ( :lol: ), or at the least, treat them anyway upon arrival and make sure they are clean before mingling them into the collection.
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Re: Agave mite?

#67

Post by dontwaterme »

I noticed some lesions on a recently acquired Agave Horrida.I took a look through the reference photos for agave mite and the damage seen looks similar to me, i.e rust colored lesions on underside of leaves and along leaf edges. There is also discoloration going on around the lesions where there are light green blotches. The one thing I do not see are the grease stains surrounding the lesions.

It was near a few other agaves (I have since isolated this plant) but I'm worried I should start a miticide treatment on the other plants as a preventative measure if this indeed turns out to be agave mite. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I read in this thread that Agave Parrasana is supposedly very susceptible to agave mite and my Parrasana that was right next to it looks great and healthy.

I've attached some photos of the damage for reference.
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Re: Agave mite?

#68

Post by Gee.S »

^ Not agave mite. Look at pics here: Agave Mite
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#69

Post by dontwaterme »

Gee.S wrote:^ Not agave mite. Look at pics here: Agave Mite
Thanks, I was worried it was it beginning to show signs. I had 4 other agaves right next to it so this is reassuring.
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Re: Agave mite?

#70

Post by Gee.S »

Lesions are typically vertical emanating from the base of the leaf. Yours are more scatter shot.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#71

Post by dontwaterme »

Hey guys, I'm back again.

I noticed what looks like grease stains on an A. Titanota plant I got from Home Depot 6+ months ago. I know it's lacking the vertical lesions emanating from the base on a majority of the grease stains, but it does look like there are some lesions on the lower most leaves. I also noticed what looks like grease stains on a pup I separated from this mother plant back when I bought it .

At this point do you this is cause for concern and if so, would you recommend I start a miticide regimen or just monitor it for now?
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Pup showing what looks like grease stains
Pup showing what looks like grease stains
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Tried my best to get a photo of the newest leaves
Tried my best to get a photo of the newest leaves
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Grease stains with some lesions
Grease stains with some lesions
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Apparent grease stains lacking lesions
Apparent grease stains lacking lesions
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Re: Agave mite?

#72

Post by Gee.S »

Boy, that's a tough call. Looks suspicious, but I'm not convinced it's mites. If you have Forbid or Avid cued up and ready to go, a LIGHT squirt once per month wouldn't hurt, else I would just keep an open eye.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Re: Agave mite?

#73

Post by dontwaterme »

Gee.S wrote:Boy, that's a tough call. Looks suspicious, but I'm not convinced it's mites. If you have Forbid or Avid cued up and ready to go, a LIGHT squirt once per month wouldn't hurt, else I would just keep an open eye.
Thanks. I don't have any miticides on hand. They are pricey but when I add up the total I've spent on agaves, I quickly realize its worth it.

The mother plant and pup are next to a number of other Agave so I guess if I start to see grease stains/lesions on those plants then I will definitely pull the trigger on a few miticides and start a rotating regimen.
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Re: Agave mite?

#74

Post by Desert_spaces »

Yikes didn’t know agaves could get these mites. If anyone’s looking for smaller quantities of miticides check this out https://www.flytrapcare.com/store/other ... ous-plants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Agave mite?

#75

Post by Gee.S »

Neither Floramite nor TetraSan are rated for eriophyid mites. Also, we do not recommend anyone purchase ANY product of this type not in original sealed packaging. In the end, you'll have no idea what you actually receive.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".

"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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