New Aloes

[AL∞Σ]

Never heard the theory of Aloe vera solely being grown from offshoots. It's hard to imagine that being true. It's too bad that genetic testing isn't super cheap, quick and easy yet.

That's interesting that you'd like to cross A. vera with other medicinal Aloes. Personally I don't understand the medicinal aspect enough to guess the consequences of hybridization. Are all medicinal Aloes edible?

Here’s an article about aloe Vera’s origins from Richo Cech at strictlymedicinal seeds.
https://blog.strictlymedicinalseeds.com ... -vera/amp/

And here’s another interesting article about the genetics of aloe Vera and also a reason why it was picked and propagated through he centuries.
https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/bmcseri ... use-hands/

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[mickthecactus]

There's no such thing as a foolproof method but this works for me provided seeds are good.

I use square pots generally, clean them and scald with boiling water. Mix is John Innes compost and vermiculite 50/50. Sow seed and just cover. Stand in boiling water until soaked through. Drain then seal in a plastic bag. Place in propagator at 25c. Wait...

[Epiphyte]

Never heard the theory of Aloe vera solely being grown from offshoots. It's hard to imagine that being true. It's too bad that genetic testing isn't super cheap, quick and easy yet.

That's interesting that you'd like to cross A. vera with other medicinal Aloes. Personally I don't understand the medicinal aspect enough to guess the consequences of hybridization. Are all medicinal Aloes edible?

Here’s an article about aloe Vera’s origins from Richo Cech at strictlymedicinal seeds.
https://blog.strictlymedicinalseeds.com ... -vera/amp/

And here’s another interesting article about the genetics of aloe Vera and also a reason why it was picked and propagated through he centuries.
https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/bmcseri ... use-hands/

CC64361F-ED99-4915-AE97-C21310D7C7F0.gif

i read both articles. interesting, i didn't know that vera might be a hybrid. not surprising though since plenty of species are actually hybrids.

not sure about that cladogram since bakeri is from madagascar. at 1st glance i was surprised to see it so close to vera. searched for some other phylogenetic trees... bakeri's placement was quite different. it was placed right next to vaombe, which was also surprising, but at least they are both from madagascar. i bet that they wouldn't be right next to each other in a cladogram of all the madagascan aloes.

[AL∞Σ]

I got to say that I didn’t understand that at all about the clades. I don’t see resemblances to aloe Vera in those species. I was hoping somebody could explain it.

I don’t know what could be the origins of it. Aloe officianalis looks very very similar to aloe Vera from photos. Like exactly the same. I have an aloe I bought as aloe Vera x aloe Vera hybrid. It could maybe be aloe oficianilis. Aloe scobinifolia is nothing like aloe vera. The Vera flowers or size are not like aloe zubb. The fat succulent leaves are similar. But big difference in size.
One way to tell if it is a hybrid? Get it to self fertilize and grow out the seeds. If the seedlings come up looking like 2 or 3 different plants, then you know.
I have aloe Vera chinesis and I just looked at a mature plant in the bright light and you can see the spots and variegation on the leaves that don’t show up on aloe Vera. I’ve got aloe massawana and that looks a lot like aloe chinensis.

[mcvansoest]

I am always a bit surprised when people are talking about vera hybrids... I guess I have gotten the very occasional seed pod on inflorescences of my vera clump, but based upon observations of the many hundreds (if not thousands) of plants they are growing in the landscape on the university campus where I work (and throughout the greater Phoenix area as whole for that matter), I am pretty convinced that when people say this plant is mostly sterile that they are correct - which would be a strong indicator that it is likely a hybrid or like the domesticate Agaves a product of human intervention.

So when I see people waxing poetically about all their aloe vera hybrids, I do wonder if they actually have that - aloe vera hybrids - or maybe just hybrid seeds from the many plants that get sold in the big box stores as aloe vera but are not actually that or of the many mistakenly identified aloes with yellow flowers that are also not aloe vera in people's collections. I have a plant that when I got it was NOID and had me strongly suspect it was Aloe vera, in terms of looks and size it looked very much like it, it offset a little less than my vera clump but then I just planted it.... Flowers are yellow, upon close inspection not quite the same but I could see one easily mistake them for Aloe vera flowers if just giving them a cursory glance, but then I have inflorescences full of seed pods... hmmm, probably means it is not that.

The fact that these plants pretty much flower at the same time en masse suggests to me that at least the plants grown throughout the Phoenix area are probably derived from a very limited number of clones - this plant has so little actual variation that propagation by offsets (clones) is way more likely to have been the propagation path throughout its long history than active seed based propagation.

[AL∞Σ]

The fact that these plants pretty much flower at the same time en masse suggests to me that at least the plants grown throughout the Phoenix area are probably derived from a very limited number of clones - this plant has so little actual variation that propagation by offsets (clones) is way more likely to have been the propagation path throughout its long history than active seed based propagation.

Yes it definitely has been propagated by offsets throughout history. That was I wanted to test. Is it 1 clone that is propagated everywhere? There’s plantations in Dominican Republic, Canary Islands, Texas, china, Thailand. Is it all from 1 unique individual? No way? I’ve collected as many different aloe Vera’s from as many places as I could and wanted to see if they make seeds. I’ve been able to make seeds but I think one of the plants is a hybrid or atleast 75% aloe Vera. Next time I’ll have to cut the flower stalk off that plant and see if I can get seeds from the other aloe Veras.

[Epiphyte]

I am always a bit surprised when people are talking about vera hybrids... I guess I have gotten the very occasional seed pod on inflorescences of my vera clump, but based upon observations of the many hundreds (if not thousands) of plants they are growing in the landscape on the university campus where I work (and throughout the greater Phoenix area as whole for that matter), I am pretty convinced that when people say this plant is mostly sterile that they are correct - which would be a strong indicator that it is likely a hybrid or like the domesticate Agaves a product of human intervention.

The fact that these plants pretty much flower at the same time en masse suggests to me that at least the plants grown throughout the Phoenix area are probably derived from a very limited number of clones - this plant has so little actual variation that propagation by offsets (clones) is way more likely to have been the propagation path throughout its long history than active seed based propagation.

scarce seed pods could indicate sterility because of hybridization, but it could also indicate...

1. that the aloes are all clones that aren't very interested in inbreeding
2. the absence of an effective pollinator

when i littered my front yard with pups from my variegated arborescens, with the goal of facilitating variegated hybrids with my other tree aloes, i had the same question. even though i also had a green arborescens, seed pods were few and far between. one issue is that the variegated arborescens blooms a lot earlier than the rest of my tree aloes. i managed to end up with a variegated arborescens seedling which i also stuck in the front yard. when it began to bloom i don't remember a noticeable increase in pods. but when i found and bought another variegated arborescens then there was a noticeable increase in arborescens seed pods. it's hard to say if there's much difference in the new variegated arborescens' form or variegation, since i still only have it in one spot. the flowers might be a bit nicer, but maybe it's just my imagination. the pods though are definitely different... they are larger, reddish and a lot more numerous.

in this case the pod scarcity wasn't because of hybrid sterility, or a lack of effective pollinators, it was because of a lack of adequately different aloes blooming at the same time.

last year my long-suffering ferox managed to bloom and it did so when my arborescens was blooming. i thought for sure my ferox would be loaded with pods since the two aloes are compatible and were blooming a few feet from each other. but for the heck of it i spent a few days pollinating the ferox with variegated arborescens pollen. much to my surprise and disappointment, the only pods i got were from the flowers i pollinated. in this case the issue had to be a lack of effective pollinators. evidently we are going to need larger hummingbirds.

since vera and arborescens are such prolific puppers it makes sense that most of them are going to be clones. even when seed is available most people would prefer a pup. the colonization of clones is an interesting topic. whenever "i" make a new aloe hybrid i wonder how much its survival will depend on how quickly/prolifically it pups.

[DesertRose]

Very interesting thread that morphed into discussion on aloe vera hybrids. It just so happened that this is the first year I’ve seen my aloe vera develop any seed pods. I’ve added a variety of other aloes to my yard, I think only my blue elf aloe was blooming at the same time. I found the thread interesting because for all the aloes around Tempe/Phoenix there rarely seem to form seed pods.

We’ve had plenty of pollinators visit the yard and one hummingbird set up a nest on our string lights underneath the patio cover.

Anyways, thought it was interesting and I’ll give it a shot to see if the pods produce anything worthwhile.

[Epiphyte]

on instagram a guy i follow, nickjoe209, recently posted aloe vera x camperi 'cornuta'.

[AL∞Σ]

Hello everybody. I finally got around to germinating some aloe seed. I’m not sure why I waited so long, but I did. And after 9 days now of course the older seed doesn’t look like it is going to come up. On the bright side the fresh Aloe Vera seed and Aloe Sinkatana x Aloe Vera are doing very well. I have some seed labeled “aloe Vera Barbadensis” from Koehres kakteen in Germany from 2022 that is also coming up.
So if anybody doubts that aloe Vera can produce viable seed… here it is. I read enough times on the internet that it was sterile and can’t produce seed. Well the proof is in the seed.

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[AL∞Σ]

How long should I leave seedlings inside of the plastic baggies?

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[mickthecactus]

I normally allow 14 days in the bag from first germination. Works for me.

[AL∞Σ]

Heres an update on the aloe vera seedlings. The ones from Koehres Kakteen are doing well.