Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Agave, Beschorneria, Furcraea, Hesperaloe, Hesperoyucca, Manfreda, Polianthes, Yucca and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.
The past few winters here have been pretty brutal and killed most of the agaves in the area. Google says 18F is the lower limit for americana, but we got down to 0F with lots of snow and moisture for extended periods of time. However, there are a few giant americanas that survived it all without too much damage, surprisingly.
One example is at a gas station I drive by occasionally that has a bunch of agaves, cactus, and yucca for decoration. Almost all of the solitary medium and small agaves died while the giant ones (and small some of the pups beneath it) made out alright. I took photos today to share some examples:
The large ones that made it out with relatively little damage. Some of the pups died but many didn't.
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Medium sized agave that didn't make it. This is what happened to the majority of the agaves
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Another example of a mid-sized one that didn't make it
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A mid-sized that did make it somehow, but has some serious damage
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Is this normal for old, giant americanas to tolerate far lower temps than they are supposed to be able to? I know size helps, but does it usually help that much?
Maybe that one is particularly hardy? The past few winters in Texas have really weeded out the weak plants. Makes me wonder if you just plant an americana large enough it might survive here. Guess I better start shopping for greenhouses.
I’m thinking the inverse is true as well. I had lots of smaller plants last winter and they died at temps that they’re supposedly hardy at. Parryi and neomexicana both died at 4 degrees, which surprised me. I planted a few larger plants this year and am holding a couple back for another year to get bigger.
Most of the large Agave americana that survived 2021 in Central/North Texas are Agave protoamericana or have protoamericana blood mixed in. Agave protoamericana is a natural hybrid of americana x asperimma . They burned badly but survived temperatures near 0°F in 2021. The vast majority of medium to large specimen in the Austin area immediately flowered the following spring or summer as a reaction to the freeze damage. There are still some around that didn’t, including a nearly 12-15 foot specimen near my job.
Meangreen, i remember you posted a picture of a strip with some damaged cacti and agave americana’s but the barrel cacti looked intact. Any idea how these turned out?
The last 3 winters have virtually wiped out all the agaves in the Austin and central Texas area except ovatifolia and victoria regina and a handful of protoamericana. I have had success with protoamericana Funky Toes which I got years ago and it has survived every winter including the apocalyptic 2020/2021 storm when it got down to -4 here at my house and the super ice storm here last winter. These are bullet proof and seem to never die. Also extremely drought tolerant and mine are never watered. These get about 5 - 6' wide, so they are not too large either. Seems like PDN offers them occasionally.
As far as americana goes, those are wiped out in this area and good riddance. They tend to be a host to agave weevils and spread those critters out to other agaves in the area. IMO not a very attractive species and too common looking in appearance.
Axel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:52 am
Meangreen, i remember you posted a picture of a strip with some damaged cacti and agave americana’s but the barrel cacti looked intact. Any idea how these turned out?
I’ve never been to that exact location myself. I just forwarded the pictures . It’s about 2 hours from me.Sorry.
It’s very unlikely those yellow barrel- Echinocactus grusonii survived.
Meangreen94z wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:49 am
Most of the large Agave americana that survived 2021 in Central/North Texas are Agave protoamericana or have protoamericana blood mixed in. Agave protoamericana is a natural hybrid of americana x asperimma . They burned badly but survived temperatures near 0°F in 2021. The vast majority of medium to large specimen in the Austin area immediately flowered the following spring or summer as a reaction to the freeze damage. There are still some around that didn’t, including a nearly 12-15 foot specimen near my job.
Many years ago while traveling between Roma and Laredo, I remember seeing large Agave colonies that I thought were just some A. americana that had escaped from cultivation. Is it possible that they were Agave americana subsp. protamericana?
@Gafoto If it is hardy genes I need to talk to the owner about getting some of those pups… Shoot, I’d be afraid to let an americana get nice and huge and then set it out in salt lake winters, even knowing these made it.
@Meangreen94z I’ve been wanting protoamericana but I hadn't read up on its genetics and didn’t know it was from asperimma. Also didn’t know asperimma was so cold hardy to give the hybrid such cold tolerance. I had looked it up once real quick and the first answer wasn’t very cold, but looking into it more now I’m seeing the origin location of the asperrima makes the difference in cold tolerance or not. Interesting. A 15 ft one near you is awesome! I love the giant ones.
@MikeyDude I’m surprised the Victoria reginae survived? I had always read 10F for those. Ovatifolia is on my wish list, for sure. That funky toes looks nice. If you have any seeds or pups you’d like to sell or trade, let me know! I like americana, but admittedly they don’t all look great. Some do, though. Didn’t know they were pest magnets.
@Tom in Tucson I wouldn’t know, but I did go and look at google maps and inaturalist. I took screenshots of the route map and of protoamericana locations map and overlaid them, and it looks possible:
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I went and got photos of another large americana that did so well through all the cold. I don't know if anyone here can tell me if it looks like protoamericana or not based off of this photo
Meangreen94z wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:49 am
Most of the large Agave americana that survived 2021 in Central/North Texas are Agave protoamericana or have protoamericana blood mixed in. Agave protoamericana is a natural hybrid of americana x asperimma . They burned badly but survived temperatures near 0°F in 2021. The vast majority of medium to large specimen in the Austin area immediately flowered the following spring or summer as a reaction to the freeze damage. There are still some around that didn’t, including a nearly 12-15 foot specimen near my job.
Many years ago while traveling between Roma and Laredo, I remember seeing large Agave colonies that I thought were just some A. americana that had escaped from cultivation. Is it possible that they were Agave americana subsp. protamericana?
nsp88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:31 pm
@Gafoto If it is hardy genes I need to talk to the owner about getting some of those pups… Shoot, I’d be afraid to let an americana get nice and huge and then set it out in salt lake winters, even knowing these made it.
@Meangreen94z I’ve been wanting protoamericana but I hadn't read up on its genetics and didn’t know it was from asperimma. Also didn’t know asperimma was so cold hardy to give the hybrid such cold tolerance. I had looked it up once real quick and the first answer wasn’t very cold, but looking into it more now I’m seeing the origin location of the asperrima makes the difference in cold tolerance or not. Interesting. A 15 ft one near you is awesome! I love the giant ones.
@MikeyDude I’m surprised the Victoria reginae survived? I had always read 10F for those. Ovatifolia is on my wish list, for sure. That funky toes looks nice. If you have any seeds or pups you’d like to sell or trade, let me know! I like americana, but admittedly they don’t all look great. Some do, though. Didn’t know they were pest magnets.
@Tom in Tucson I wouldn’t know, but I did go and look at google maps and inaturalist. I took screenshots of the route map and of protoamericana locations map and overlaid them, and it looks possible:
protoamericana 1.jpg
I think he meant between Roma, Texas and Laredo along the Texas border. Agave Americana is supposedly native to South Texas. I’ve seen specimen growing along undisturbed coastal brush between Laguna Vista and Port Isabel, but I’m not 100% sure how they got there. They grow there alongside native Yucca treculeana. There are also reports of them growing in deep
brush and inaccessible parts of Laguna Atascosa NWR on iNaturalist but I haven’t been able to confirm while there in person.
Both Agave asperimma and Agave lopantha grow naturally near Zapata, and asperrima grows from there to Laredo and east of it per iNaturalist.
gave_agave wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:34 am
Also, those big ones wouldn't have gotten so big if they were sensitive to cold and wet. So genes, of the specific individual, might also be a factor.
There’s a fellow in the Salt Lake area who claims to be growing an americana in a sheltered spot. They’re all such a mishmash of genetics that it’s hard to tell what’s what though. Plant Delights gets quite a few large agave to survive in single digits and a bit of snow/ice so it’s not unheard of for these giants to survive rough weather. Texas really has drawn the short stick for a few years though.
nsp88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:31 pm
@Gafoto If it is hardy genes I need to talk to the owner about getting some of those pups… Shoot, I’d be afraid to let an americana get nice and huge and then set it out in salt lake winters, even knowing these made it.
You’d probably be doing them a huge favor. Americana is a dangerous plant to weed around
nsp88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:31 pm
@Gafoto If it is hardy genes I need to talk to the owner about getting some of those pups… Shoot, I’d be afraid to let an americana get nice and huge and then set it out in salt lake winters, even knowing these made it.
@Meangreen94z I’ve been wanting protoamericana but I hadn't read up on its genetics and didn’t know it was from asperimma. Also didn’t know asperimma was so cold hardy to give the hybrid such cold tolerance. I had looked it up once real quick and the first answer wasn’t very cold, but looking into it more now I’m seeing the origin location of the asperrima makes the difference in cold tolerance or not. Interesting. A 15 ft one near you is awesome! I love the giant ones.
@MikeyDude I’m surprised the Victoria reginae survived? I had always read 10F for those. Ovatifolia is on my wish list, for sure. That funky toes looks nice. If you have any seeds or pups you’d like to sell or trade, let me know! I like americana, but admittedly they don’t all look great. Some do, though. Didn’t know they were pest magnets.
@Tom in Tucson I wouldn’t know, but I did go and look at google maps and inaturalist. I took screenshots of the route map and of protoamericana locations map and overlaid them, and it looks possible:
protoamericana 1.jpg
Thanks for taking the time to research the possibilities, but since I expected @Meangreen94z to respond, and being that he's a Texas resident, I said between Roma and Laredo, assuming he would know I meant Roma, TX.
So I've been meaning to stop by this gas station and see if I can get a phone number for the owner or landscape manager to offer digging up their old small dead agaves, remove the pups off the large agaves shown here, and replant some of them around the property in exchange for some of the pups. I kept procrastinating and then happened to drive by yesterday and saw that all the agave's were gone. They're remodeling and they removed every single one of them so they could do some dirt work underneath them. I'm hoping they saved the large ones and will replant them, but I don't know. I pulled in to see if they had a dumpster full of agaves, but couldn't find any. I did find this rhizome in the soil, though. I'm hoping I can get something out of it. The end point got broken but it looks like there's a new little pup that was starting to form part way down it.
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nsp88 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:36 pm
I went and got photos of another large americana that did so well through all the cold. I don't know if anyone here can tell me if it looks like protoamericana or not based off of this photo
P7310891c.jpg
Oh and also last fall I spoke to the guy who owns this one and he said he covers it during winter storms. Then when we got the cold spell and snow this winter I went and drove by and looked at it and he had wrapped it in that thin plastic people use for hoop tunnels. it wasn't a perfect fit so there were gaps at the seams, tooS. So it surviving the 2021 storm with so little cover is still pretty decent.
