Beschorneria rigida in habitat, central Mexico

[seco]

The following pictures show Beschorneria rigida flowering and fruiting in habitat in Querétaro state in the highlands of central Mexico.

You can read more details about the plant and what I've learned about it at https://www.backyardnature.net/mexnat/qto/beschorn.htm

[Meangreen94z]

That’s funny, I was just talking to Paul S about this. His thoughts are what some are labeling rigida is actually tubiflora, and vice versa. I found these on iNaturalist outside Queretaro and wonder if they are in fact the real rigida. Since they better fit the description. They almost look like Yucca pallida. Your Beschorneria also has tubed flowers, which would fit the “tubiflora” description .

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[Paul S]

Indeed, Daniel has saved me the need to post. I believe the plant you show is B. tubiflora. I have the exact same plant at home that came as B. rigida but, having recently looked into it, I think this is incorrect and, as Daniel has shown, I think the real rigida has deeply keeled, glaucous grey, rigid leaves and more flared flowers. But habitat shots of B. tubiflora are very hard to find so your pictures are extremely welcome!

[seco]

Thanks Meangreen and Paul.

I'll change the ID on my webpage, and maybe help with the situation that what "... some are labeling rigida is actually tubiflora, and vice versa."

It would be interesting to know how you looked into it. I had to rely on labeled pictures on the Internet, and often vague technical descriptions.

Thanks again to both of you.

[Paul S]

There certainly aren't many sources. As Daniel has shown, iNaturalist is a good source of habitat pictures. The website agavaceae.com is a great resource when it comes to links to descriptions - here the Beschorneria page with links to each of the species covered.

https://www.agavaceae.com/botanik/pflan ... IA&gnr=120

[Meangreen94z]

Thanks Meangreen and Paul.

I'll change the ID on my webpage, and maybe help with the situation that what "... some are labeling rigida is actually tubiflora, and vice versa."

It would be interesting to know how you looked into it. I had to rely on labeled pictures on the Internet, and often vague technical descriptions.

Thanks again to both of you.

If you have a smartphone you can download the free app for iNaturalist or logon to their website . It documents species and locations based on user data. It’s extremely useful in determining approximate locations of species, and in providing pictures you might not otherwise find. The identifications are based initially on what the user submitted with the picture/location, but other users can verify or suggest another identification for plants.
https://www.inaturalist.org/

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On my webpage at https://www.backyardnature.net/mexnat/qto/beschorn.htm I've changed the identification to Beschorneria cf. tubiflora, with a nod to Meangreen94z and Paul S for pointing me toward tubiflora. While looking more closely at the literature, as stated on the web page, I found some interesting facts.

England's Kew Gardens provides a page displaying the type specimen upon which the Beschorneria rigida concept is based. Our plants seem to "fit the type." However, at the BiodiversityLibrary.Org website there's a page providing the formal text description appearing in the publication introducing Boschorneria rigida to science. There it's said that the flowering stalk of Boschorneria rigida is about a meter long (3.3ft), while our plants' stalks were at least double that. It also describes bracts in the inflorescence as 15-20cm long (6-nearly 7 inches), while the few bracts on our plant are much shorter. The webpages are linked to on my website so that you can go directly to right pages.

While comparing images, it's worth noting that when the flowers are fresh, segments of the corolla, or perianth, hold together, looking like a corolla with a long tube and very short lobes. However, when the capsules are more mature, the perianth segments dry and separate from one another nearly or completely to the base.

The label on the Boschorneria rigida type shows that it was collected by C.C. Parry and E. Palmer in 1878. Printed text on the label indicates that all plants bearing this label were collected "chiefly in the region of San Luis Potosi" at an altitude of 6000-8000 ft.

Such a vague description of location could as easily have been in our neighboring state of Querétaro as the much larger San Luis Potosí state. Also, at 6000-8000 ft, the ecology in these states is mainly semiarid, spiny scrub occupying the relatively flat altiplano uplands between the Eastern and Western Sierra Madre Mountains. Our plants were found in the Eastern Sierra Mountains at an elevation of ~2760 meters (~9050 feet), amid oak-pine forest with firs beginning to appear a little higher up. As I took the above pictures, it was cold, dark and windy as great cloud-billows gushed upslope from the valley below, despite the drought, keeping things moist. In this area, a few tens of meters of elevation can make enormous ecological differences.

I now don't believe that our plants are Boschorneria rigida, but I can't find supporting information that they are definitely Boschorneria tubiflora; the literature is just too limited and vague. However, Meangreen94z in Texas and Paul S in England have much more experience with beshorneria plants than I, so I'm filing this page on the Internet under BESCHORNERIA cf. TUBIFLORA, the "cf." meaning that I hope someone later on will be able to "confirm" that it's really a Beschorneria tubiflora.

[Paul S]

Another alternative explanation is that your plant, and the plant I grow that looks like it, are something that has yet to be formally described. Mexico is full of such plants, I have seen many myself

As far as I can tell, the genus Beschorneria has been less closely scrutinised historically than most of the 'woody lilies'. I have a plant that came labelled as Beschorneria calcicola - it isn't that taxon, but it isn't any of the others, either. I have 3 plants that are purported to be B. albiflora but are very different from each other in form and flower. They are all trunking Beschorneria but can't all be B. albiflora! I have different clones of B. yuccoides that are very different in the structure of the inflorescence. Ditto B. septentrionalis. Plus, in cultivation at least, they hybridise readily. All things considered it is a bit of a mess!

[Meangreen94z]

On my webpage at https://www.backyardnature.net/mexnat/qto/beschorn.htm I've changed the identification to Beschorneria cf. tubiflora, with a nod to Meangreen94z and Paul S for pointing me toward tubiflora. While looking more closely at the literature, as stated on the web page, I found some interesting facts.

England's Kew Gardens provides a page displaying the type specimen upon which the Beschorneria rigida concept is based. Our plants seem to "fit the type." However, at the BiodiversityLibrary.Org website there's a page providing the formal text description appearing in the publication introducing Boschorneria rigida to science. There it's said that the flowering stalk of Boschorneria rigida is about a meter long (3.3ft), while our plants' stalks were at least double that. It also describes bracts in the inflorescence as 15-20cm long (6-nearly 7 inches), while the few bracts on our plant are much shorter. The webpages are linked to on my website so that you can go directly to right pages.

While comparing images, it's worth noting that when the flowers are fresh, segments of the corolla, or perianth, hold together, looking like a corolla with a long tube and very short lobes. However, when the capsules are more mature, the perianth segments dry and separate from one another nearly or completely to the base.

The label on the Boschorneria rigida type shows that it was collected by C.C. Parry and E. Palmer in 1878. Printed text on the label indicates that all plants bearing this label were collected "chiefly in the region of San Luis Potosi" at an altitude of 6000-8000 ft.

Such a vague description of location could as easily have been in our neighboring state of Querétaro as the much larger San Luis Potosí state. Also, at 6000-8000 ft, the ecology in these states is mainly semiarid, spiny scrub occupying the relatively flat altiplano uplands between the Eastern and Western Sierra Madre Mountains. Our plants were found in the Eastern Sierra Mountains at an elevation of ~2760 meters (~9050 feet), amid oak-pine forest with firs beginning to appear a little higher up. As I took the above pictures, it was cold, dark and windy as great cloud-billows gushed upslope from the valley below, despite the drought, keeping things moist. In this area, a few tens of meters of elevation can make enormous ecological differences.

I now don't believe that our plants are Boschorneria rigida, but I can't find supporting information that they are definitely Boschorneria tubiflora; the literature is just too limited and vague. However, Meangreen94z in Texas and Paul S in England have much more experience with beshorneria plants than I, so I'm filing this page on the Internet under BESCHORNERIA cf. TUBIFLORA, the "cf." meaning that I hope someone later on will be able to "confirm" that it's really a Beschorneria tubiflora.

That original locality is correct. It slipped my mind that I had found the above pictured specimen to the north in San Luis Potosí. I should have mentioned that, sorry. The specimen identified as rigida in Queretaro appear to be tubiflora

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[Minime8484]

Very interesting post. I have been doing extensive work with Beschorneria in the past couple of years, and one thing is clear: almost nothing is clear!

I've been tracking down and visiting sites where some species are described from, but the data are often over 40 years old, and the habitat has changed dramatically in some cases so much that it is no longer surprising those populations are gone. And, not just from human impacts: 40 years changes the vegetation and overall habitat quite dramatically in some cases.

I'm glad Beschorneria is getting more visibility lately - stay tuned for more!