South American Hardiness

[Gafoto]

The only south american cactus that’s been on my radar that’s hardy in my zone 7 with snowy winters has been Gymnocalycium brucchi and some Maihuenopsis but I’m learning about so many others.

Has anyone had luck with some of the other species that grow at very high altitude there? Oreocereus grows quite high but there isn’t much info about them growing in colder climates. The info online is often less than useful:

IMG_3933.jpeg (122.27 KiB) Viewed 1594 times

They come from a very dry area so maybe they don’t tolerate the moisture at all? I know very little about the weather patterns there, does South America never get antarctic blasts of cold air like we do in the northern hemisphere?

[westfork]

We are experimenting with a few South Americans. One thing to keep in mind with these is how they handle heat. Lots of alpine species do not take it well when the nights stay warm. We learned this lesson well with Argentine bamboo which made it through our zone 4 winters but could not take the summer heat. And we are far enough north that even when the daytime temperatures are around 100 we usually cool off to the high 50s or low 60s at night.

[jam]

No experience here but I want to try these:

Soehrensia bruchii
Echinocereus terscheckii (this is most likely too much for my climate but I'd be willing to throw a bucket over it during the worst events)
Denmoza rhodacantha

With SOAM species I think it's more about the provenance / altitude than latitude distribution. Look how narrow the land mass of Chile and Argentina is compared to the Noth America land mass. Air masses don't travel in straight lines. Any polar vortex coming from Antarctica would get heavily moderated by either the Pacific ocean or Atlantic before reaching that far north.

[Gafoto]

You never know what climate change will do but Salt Lake City is quite arid in the summers and as a result cools down pretty well at night. It's a rare occasion when our overnight low doesn't get below 80.


An interesting read:

Cactus-Explorer-16-High-Altitude-Cacti.pdf

(1.82 MiB) Downloaded 137 times

I do very much appreciate when seed collectors include elevation and location. Some of those south american species, like Eriosyce curvispina, seem to grow from near sea level all the way to 3000m.

[jam]

I do very much appreciate when seed collectors include elevation and location.

I believe most of them do but the info is lost somewhere along the way. Shops could not care less, unfortunately. Majority of their market doesn't give a flip about location because their climate is suitable for Eriosyce curvispina whether it comes from 100m asl or 3000m asl. Then there are Gafotos, Westforks and Jans (and others defying the laws of nature) who amount to a niche market and must turn to sellers specializing in cold hardy staff because they realize how provenance is crucial.

[anttisepp]

Don't kill them. Cat doesn't survive in fishtank.

[Gafoto]

Don't kill them. Cat doesn't survive in fishtank.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but trying to find cats that swim is kind of what we do here

I very much appreciate native species and the xeric plants that aren’t much of a challenge to grow but I’m enjoying having a long pipeline of interesting and borderline species. Ensures my garden gets overplanted but doesn’t stay that way.

[Meangreen94z]

I posted these links from Albuquerque, NM and St. Louis, Missouri in another thread I created .
viewtopic.php?t=10665
There are Austrocactus that survive in Idaho, but they are difficult to find. They don’t like Austin and are tricky to start from seed. Occasionally coldhardycactus sells bertinii. There are Gymnocalycium, Acanthocalycium, Lobivia, Parodia ,Notocactus, and others on those lists. David Ferguson even mentions Denmoza rhodacantha as a possibility, but I’ve found them finicky like the Soehrensia species. They bake and rot in intense summer sun/heat.
https://www.new-mexico.cactus-society.o ... ev7-08.pdf
https://hscactus.org/resources/digest/p ... -st-louis/

[Gafoto]

I used a few of those recommendations to throw at local growers here in Tucson. Had some success finding species but it’s always hit and miss. I’ll have to keep my eyes out on Mesa Garden for some seed of those species.

I found someone who has (one) Denmoza that I’m gonna snag tomorrow. Unfortunately that species is another one that varies from mild to very extreme elevations. Worth a shot. I can only fit so many Echinocereus in my beds…

[Meangreen94z]

Planet Desert carries a number of the small species off and on. Gymnocalycium gibbosum is a great one all around. Extremely hardy, handles heavy sun, attractive.

[Paul S]

Planet Desert carries a number of the small species off and on. Gymnocalycium gibbosum is a great one all around. Extremely hardy, handles heavy sun, attractive.

Interesting what you say about this and sun, which I assume includes heat, because being too hot and dry is actually what I attributed the demise of my plant to. I grew it from seed over 25 years ago and it lived outside all that time quite happily until the summer before last - we had 10 weeks without a drop of rain and 2 weeks above 30C, a high temperature of 40C. Unprecedented for my part of the UK and hopefully not too often repeated. The poor thing died before winter. I took this to indicate that it is quite a temperate growing plant.

[Gafoto]

Planet Desert carries a number of the small species off and on. Gymnocalycium gibbosum is a great one all around. Extremely hardy, handles heavy sun, attractive.

Interesting what you say about this and sun, which I assume includes heat, because being too hot and dry is actually what I attributed the demise of my plant to. I grew it from seed over 25 years ago and it lived outside all that time quite happily until the summer before last - we had 10 weeks without a drop of rain and 2 weeks above 30C, a high temperature of 40C. Unprecedented for my part of the UK and hopefully not too often repeated. The poor thing died before winter. I took this to indicate that it is quite a temperate growing plant.

That is unusual for alpine plants to be that sensitive to heat. While they don't prefer it most of the higher elevation cactus from the US I've grown seem to tolerate temps into the 100s without complaining much. I wonder also about humidity, night time cooling and other factors.

I'd like to give a shout out to Michiel, who runs Prickly Prospects Nursery in Tucson. I just visited him and he had some lovely Oreoceus (and one lil Denmoza). He's quite religious about maintaining locality data for his seedlings when it exists so if you're looking for plants that grow in vaguely similar climates to your own, he might be able to help. As seems to be the case for growers here, he had a lot more plants in his greenhouse than what is listed on his website.

[Tom in Tucson]

Planet Desert carries a number of the small species off and on. Gymnocalycium gibbosum is a great one all around. Extremely hardy, handles heavy sun, attractive.

Interesting what you say about this and sun, which I assume includes heat, because being too hot and dry is actually what I attributed the demise of my plant to. I grew it from seed over 25 years ago and it lived outside all that time quite happily until the summer before last - we had 10 weeks without a drop of rain and 2 weeks above 30C, a high temperature of 40C. Unprecedented for my part of the UK and hopefully not too often repeated. The poor thing died before winter. I took this to indicate that it is quite a temperate growing plant.

That is unusual for alpine plants to be that sensitive to heat. While they don't prefer it most of the higher elevation cactus from the US I've grown seem to tolerate temps into the 100s without complaining much. I wonder also about humidity, night time cooling and other factors.

I'd like to give a shout out to Michiel, who runs Prickly Prospects Nursery in Tucson. I just visited him and he had some lovely Oreoceus (and one lil Denmoza). He's quite religious about maintaining locality data for his seedlings when it exists so if you're looking for plants that grow in vaguely similar climates to your own, he might be able to help. As seems to be the case for growers here, he had a lot more plants in his greenhouse than what is listed on his website.

I've talked to Michael several times at our local sales events. AFAIK he is the most knowledgeable cactus grower in this area. He knew one of my best friends (Jürgen Menzel), and before and after his demise, acquired some of his rarest cacti on earth. You can hardly go wrong with his advice. As an aside, Michael acquired the "Holy Grail" cactus from Jürgen; Brachycereus nesioticus. Not only is it extremely rare, it's also no "cake walk" to grow. When he recently attended a cactus event in Denver, he sold a 2" seedling for $2000.

If I was going to try growing some cactus from South America in Utah, I would start with these:

Cumulopuntia boliviana
Cumulopuntia chichensis. and other species
Matucana haynei
Oroya peruviana
Trichocereus pasacana
Weingartia kargliana

[Gafoto]

Interesting what you say about this and sun, which I assume includes heat, because being too hot and dry is actually what I attributed the demise of my plant to. I grew it from seed over 25 years ago and it lived outside all that time quite happily until the summer before last - we had 10 weeks without a drop of rain and 2 weeks above 30C, a high temperature of 40C. Unprecedented for my part of the UK and hopefully not too often repeated. The poor thing died before winter. I took this to indicate that it is quite a temperate growing plant.

That is unusual for alpine plants to be that sensitive to heat. While they don't prefer it most of the higher elevation cactus from the US I've grown seem to tolerate temps into the 100s without complaining much. I wonder also about humidity, night time cooling and other factors.

I'd like to give a shout out to Michiel, who runs Prickly Prospects Nursery in Tucson. I just visited him and he had some lovely Oreoceus (and one lil Denmoza). He's quite religious about maintaining locality data for his seedlings when it exists so if you're looking for plants that grow in vaguely similar climates to your own, he might be able to help. As seems to be the case for growers here, he had a lot more plants in his greenhouse than what is listed on his website.

I've talked to Michael several times at our local sales events. AFAIK he is the most knowledgeable cactus grower in this area. He knew one of my best friends (Jürgen Menzel), and before and after his demise, acquired some of his rarest cacti on earth. You can hardly go wrong with his advice. As an aside, Michael acquired the "Holy Grail" cactus from Jürgen; Brachycereus nesioticus. Not only is it extremely rare, it's also no "cake walk" to grow. When he recently attended a cactus event in Denver, he sold a 2" seedling for $2000.

If I was going to try growing some cactus from South America in Utah, I would start with these:

Cumulopuntia boliviana
Cumulopuntia chichensis. and other species
Matucana haynei
Oroya peruviana
Trichocereus pasacana
Weingartia kargliana

Thank you for the recommendations Tom. I’ll keep an eye out for these. I told Michiel I’d report back on what I bought but of course we won’t know until spring 2025.

Those Brachycereus are neat looking but I don’t have a fresh tropical lava field for them to live on. Alas.

[Meangreen94z]

Planet Desert carries a number of the small species off and on. Gymnocalycium gibbosum is a great one all around. Extremely hardy, handles heavy sun, attractive.

Interesting what you say about this and sun, which I assume includes heat, because being too hot and dry is actually what I attributed the demise of my plant to. I grew it from seed over 25 years ago and it lived outside all that time quite happily until the summer before last - we had 10 weeks without a drop of rain and 2 weeks above 30C, a high temperature of 40C. Unprecedented for my part of the UK and hopefully not too often repeated. The poor thing died before winter. I took this to indicate that it is quite a temperate growing plant.

Mine just shriveled up in the sun and heat, but I’ve off and on lost other Gymnocalycium that had been doing fine in similar conditions. They arent perfectly adapted, but survive. I think in general South American species like some shade and temperatures closer to 90°F (32.2°F) than 100+°F(38°+C).

[Meangreen94z]

Planet Desert carries a number of the small species off and on. Gymnocalycium gibbosum is a great one all around. Extremely hardy, handles heavy sun, attractive.

Interesting what you say about this and sun, which I assume includes heat, because being too hot and dry is actually what I attributed the demise of my plant to. I grew it from seed over 25 years ago and it lived outside all that time quite happily until the summer before last - we had 10 weeks without a drop of rain and 2 weeks above 30C, a high temperature of 40C. Unprecedented for my part of the UK and hopefully not too often repeated. The poor thing died before winter. I took this to indicate that it is quite a temperate growing plant.

That is unusual for alpine plants to be that sensitive to heat. While they don't prefer it most of the higher elevation cactus from the US I've grown seem to tolerate temps into the 100s without complaining much. I wonder also about humidity, night time cooling and other factors.

I'd like to give a shout out to Michiel, who runs Prickly Prospects Nursery in Tucson. I just visited him and he had some lovely Oreoceus (and one lil Denmoza). He's quite religious about maintaining locality data for his seedlings when it exists so if you're looking for plants that grow in vaguely similar climates to your own, he might be able to help. As seems to be the case for growers here, he had a lot more plants in his greenhouse than what is listed on his website.

I’ve had no success with Oreocereus . Species like pseudofossulatus and doelzianus can’t handle full sun and rot in it, and the whole genus struggles when temperatures drop and soil is wet. I watched 4 rot at the same time last month. My Trichocereus/echinopsis all did fine. None of them appear hardy past 15°F even in ideal conditions

[Gafoto]

I bought a trolli and some celsianus from over 3800 meters. Not being able to handle full sun seems odd. Aren’t they all very high elevation cactus that grow in full sun?

I would guess moisture in winter will be their downfall, like most succulents in Salt Lake.

[jam]

I bought a trolli and some celsianus from over 3800 meters. Not being able to handle full sun seems odd. Aren’t they all very high elevation cactus that grow in full sun?

They grow in full sun and have evolved to handle high UV levels but still, the temperature at such high altitudes is lower than full sun temps at low altitude in TX, UT, NM, let alone AZ.

[westfork]

I bought a trolli and some celsianus from over 3800 meters. Not being able to handle full sun seems odd. Aren’t they all very high elevation cactus that grow in full sun?

They grow in full sun and have evolved to handle high UV levels but still, the temperature at such high altitudes is lower than full sun temps at low altitude in TX, UT, NM, let alone AZ.

That makes sense that the shade / full sun issue may be in their ability to cope with the heat in continental climates. Perhaps we can look to our high elevation Pediocactus simpsonii as having a similar reaction to summer heat in areas that do not experience a major cool down in summer nights (although they are often nestled by other plants that provide cover). High 90s daytime to 50/60s night temperatures probably suit them better than high 90s but staying very hot at 80 during night.

[jnewmark]

Not from South America, unless you include northern Mexico, but echinocereus triglochidiatus is the toughest Winter hardy cactus I've ever grown, here in 6A. It has taken below zero temps many times without a blink, and gives you beautiful flowers in Spring. I've never had any luck with other cactus except the Echinocereus species, and Opuntia, as far as Winter hardy goes.

[nsp88]

Not from South America, unless you include northern Mexico, but echinocereus triglochidiatus is the toughest Winter hardy cactus I've ever grown, here in 6A. It has taken below zero temps many times without a blink, and gives you beautiful flowers in Spring. I've never had any luck with other cactus except the Echinocereus species, and Opuntia, as far as Winter hardy goes.

Are you providing any kind of shelter from precipitation? And what kind of soil amendments or anything have you done?

[westfork]

Not from South America, unless you include northern Mexico, but echinocereus triglochidiatus is the toughest Winter hardy cactus I've ever grown, here in 6A. It has taken below zero temps many times without a blink, and gives you beautiful flowers in Spring. I've never had any luck with other cactus except the Echinocereus species, and Opuntia, as far as Winter hardy goes.

I would thing the northeastern populations of Escobaria missouriensis and vivipara would be even more ironclad for you. The ones from the eastern plains get plenty of moisture at times and their ranges into the Canadian Prairie Provinces for vivipara and east into Minnesota show they can take cold. I have had vivipara to 38 below zero in a seed tray and wet with no issues. Hoping to collect some seed of both from a ranch in eastern South Dakota next year.

[jam]

Not from South America, unless you include northern Mexico, but echinocereus triglochidiatus is the toughest Winter hardy cactus I've ever grown, here in 6A. It has taken below zero temps many times without a blink, and gives you beautiful flowers in Spring. I've never had any luck with other cactus except the Echinocereus species, and Opuntia, as far as Winter hardy goes.

I would thing the northeastern populations of Escobaria missouriensis and vivipara would be even more ironclad for you. The ones from the eastern plains get plenty of moisture at times and their ranges into the Canadian Prairie Provinces for vivipara and east into Minnesota show they can take cold. I have had vivipara to 38 below zero in a seed tray and wet with no issues. Hoping to collect some seed of both from a ranch in eastern South Dakota next year.

On top of Escobaria I would add Pediocactus, there are various simpsonii variants which can handle our winters without rain shelter. With these I always try to look out for plants of Colorado origin. I also read some Sclerocactus can live through harsh conditions but haven't tried any of those, yet. If you're willing to provide rain protection in winter, the list of species would inflate drastically.

[jnewmark]

Not from South America, unless you include northern Mexico, but echinocereus triglochidiatus is the toughest Winter hardy cactus I've ever grown, here in 6A. It has taken below zero temps many times without a blink, and gives you beautiful flowers in Spring. I've never had any luck with other cactus except the Echinocereus species, and Opuntia, as far as Winter hardy goes.

I would thing the northeastern populations of Escobaria missouriensis and vivipara would be even more ironclad for you. The ones from the eastern plains get plenty of moisture at times and their ranges into the Canadian Prairie Provinces for vivipara and east into Minnesota show they can take cold. I have had vivipara to 38 below zero in a seed tray and wet with no issues. Hoping to collect some seed of both from a ranch in eastern South Dakota next year.

Yes, I am trying Escobaria missouriensis right now, in its first Winter. I have tried vivipara when it was called, Corypantha. It survived a few Winters but finally succumbed to rot.

[jnewmark]

Not from South America, unless you include northern Mexico, but echinocereus triglochidiatus is the toughest Winter hardy cactus I've ever grown, here in 6A. It has taken below zero temps many times without a blink, and gives you beautiful flowers in Spring. I've never had any luck with other cactus except the Echinocereus species, and Opuntia, as far as Winter hardy goes.

I would thing the northeastern populations of Escobaria missouriensis and vivipara would be even more ironclad for you. The ones from the eastern plains get plenty of moisture at times and their ranges into the Canadian Prairie Provinces for vivipara and east into Minnesota show they can take cold. I have had vivipara to 38 below zero in a seed tray and wet with no issues. Hoping to collect some seed of both from a ranch in eastern South Dakota next year.

On top of Escobaria I would add Pediocactus, there are various simpsonii variants which can handle our winters without rain shelter. With these I always try to look out for plants of Colorado origin. I also read some Sclerocactus can live through harsh conditions but haven't tried any of those, yet. If you're willing to provide rain protection in winter, the list of species would inflate drastically.

Yes, I always use rain cover. My Winter hardy cactus are grown in a 2' deep raised bed, with a hoop house cover in Winter. Did try a Pediocactus, but it did not survive.