Intergeneric crossings

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Aeonium, Crassula, Dudleya, Echeveria, Kalanchoe, Rhodiola, Sedum, Sempervium and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.

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Intergeneric crossings

#1

Post by Aeonium2003 »

I attempted some Aeonium x Echeveria intergeneric crosses. An intergeneric cross between Aeonium and sempervivum already exists, and studies show that the 2 genera are not closely related.
E. purpusorum x A. decorum
E. purpusorum x A. haworthii
E. purpusorum x A. zwartkin

As seen below, the A. haworthii pollen is germinating well on the E. purpusorum stigma. Which shows that these 2 genera must be compatible to some extent. Time will tell if we actually get some seeds.
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#2

Post by edds »

Interesting attempt. Pollen will attempt to grow tubes on most stigma surfaces, it's the compatibility of the genomes that I think might be your limiting factor.

I'm sure Aeonium and Sempervivum are more closely related than Aeonium and Echeveria. If a study says otherwise have you got a link so I can read it please?
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#3

Post by Aeonium2003 »

I don't actually remember where I saw it. But in summary it stated that Sempervivum and Aeonium are hardly related, evolving from different clades. Sempervivums evolved from a group of cold hardy sedums, and the sub-genus Jovibarba (now included as sempervivum) split off 1 million years ago. It stated that the sempervivums are most closely related to the sedums in the petrosedum group (very odd).
I'm not sure how much we can trust DNA sequencing, but those were the conclusions from the study.
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#4

Post by edds »

Thanks. That makes a bit more sense!

Sedum must be polyphylletic - it has groups in America that will hybridise with Echeveria, Pachyphytum and Graptoveria whereas those in the Old World don't seem to be able to.

Sempervivum and Aeonium are certainly very distantly related which makes Surreal Succulents work to produce X Semponium all the more remarkable. I have a plant of 'Sienna' here but waiting for it to get bigger and look more representative before I start a thread.

There are some crosses within the Crassulaceae that seem impossible so perhaps your cross may work, I have my fingers crossed!
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#5

Post by edds »

After a quick look on JSTOR, I found a couple of articles that were relevant.

The Phylogenetic Position of Eastern Asian Sedoideae (Crassulaceae) Inferred from Chloroplast and Nuclear DNA Sequences

This is a study looking primarily at Asian former Sedum (Hylotelephium, Phedimus etc.) That only sequenced a few Sempervivum and Aeonium. They only sequenced a few species of Sempervivum and Aeonium and while it showed a clear separation, they were still fairly closely aligned.

The only other article that seemed to relate was in the predecessor to the BCSS's journal in 1970 and looked at physical features. Seems to have a similar cladogram though!

GENERIC DELIMITATION IN THE SEMPERVIVUM GROUP - -a Numerical Approach
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#6

Post by Aeonium2003 »

On an interesting note, I have both Sempervivum arachnoideum and Aeonium decorum going into flower. And, my freezer is full of Aeonium pollen (blushing beauty, plum purdy, Arboreum var. holochrysum, decorum, zwartkin, etc).
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#7

Post by Epiphyte »

One of the most soul crushing experiences in my life was when John Trager told me that Echeverias and Dudleyas couldn't be crossed. :cry:

I'm guessing that Echeveria and Aeonium are more distantly related? Maybe embryo rescue would work.

Right now I have a couple Monanthes blooming with some of my Aeoniums. None of my Sempervivums look like they are even close to blooming.
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#8

Post by Aeonium2003 »

Epiphyte wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:53 pm One of the most soul crushing experiences in my life was when John Trager told me that Echeverias and Dudleyas couldn't be crossed. :cry:
Interesting. Has he experimented with it? I've heard of some Echeveria x Dudleya hybrids, but I have no idea how trustworthy they are. Flowers would be needed to tell. :))
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#9

Post by Paul S »

Aeonium2003 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:54 am my freezer is full of Aeonium pollen (blushing beauty, plum purdy, Arboreum var. holochrysum, decorum, zwartkin, etc).
Yum. Surprise dinner guests are in for a treat! :lol:
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#10

Post by Aeonium2003 »

Paul S wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:27 am Yum. Surprise dinner guests are in for a treat! :lol:
Those with allergies beware!
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#11

Post by Aeonium2003 »

2 Echeveria flowers pollinated with Aeonium decorum and Aeonium haworthii pollen. Interestingly, the stigmas are beginning to spread, which is a good sign...
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#12

Post by Aeonium2003 »

2 days later, and things are still looking hopeful. The ovaries are starting to turn a little green...
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#13

Post by Aeonium2003 »

Unfortunately, the local squirrels (which were running around and squealing at each other) decided to knock over the echeveria pot. A few developing seed pods were damaged. Upon closer inspection, (after cutting the pods open), it became evident that there are indeed developing seeds.
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#14

Post by Epiphyte »

Since the plants were outside I don't think you can rule out self-pollination?
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#15

Post by Aeonium2003 »

I get to the flowers before the pollen develops, cut off the anthers, and the petals. Then spray the stigma thoroughly with water, which removes any pollen which may have possibly gotten on it. Then the flowers are covered. This ought to minimize most self pollination... unless these Echeveria are cleistogamous.

Edit: I do remove the covers when I take pictures... I doubt anything could have pollinated the flowers during that time.
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#16

Post by Aeonium2003 »

More pollen germination on Echeveria x 'Imbricata' x A. haworthii
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Purpusorum cross continues to turn green..
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#17

Post by Stan »

Congrats on becoming a moderator. :U
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Re: Intergeneric crossings

#18

Post by plantguy »

Please tell me, did you get seed?
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