Has anyone ever used Ornamec 170 grass herbicide near agaves

[nsp88]

Just heard about this from a popular flower (& more) farm in Texas.

ornamec 170 herbacide.JPG (94.01 KiB) Viewed 1436 times

ornamec 170 grass herbicide.JPG (81.55 KiB) Viewed 1436 times

I found this label info and it says it is safe on Agave americana and some other succulents. I assume that means it would be fine on all agaves, but I've never used any kind of sprays before so a little unsure uneasy.

http://horizon.wiki/images/d/dd/PBI_Gor ... _Label.pdf

[Fairview]

What is the active ingredient? I just used Clethodim 2 days ago around my agaves, yuccas and dasylirions. I did not spray over the top however. Because these plants grow so slowly, any damage/death that occurs may not be apparent for several months and not be attributed to the herbicide.

[nsp88]

What is the active ingredient? I just used Clethodim 2 days ago around my agaves, yuccas and dasylirions. I did not spray over the top however. Because these plants grow so slowly, any damage/death that occurs may not be apparent for several months and not be attributed to the herbicide.

ornamec.jpg (38 KiB) Viewed 1384 times

I'm probably just being paranoid about ruining the agaves. Guess I could just keep it a few feet away from the agaves and hit the rest of the grass if I want to be overly cautious.

Update me on how well the clethodim works, please!

[abborean]

This might be the solution to my bermuda grass problem.

[Gee.S]

If it won't harm wildflowers, it probably won't harm agaves. You can spray Roundup on and around agaves without harming them, so long as an effort is made to keep it to a minimum.

[Fairview]

What is the active ingredient? I just used Clethodim 2 days ago around my agaves, yuccas and dasylirions. I did not spray over the top however. Because these plants grow so slowly, any damage/death that occurs may not be apparent for several months and not be attributed to the herbicide.

ornamec.jpg

I'm probably just being paranoid about ruining the agaves. Guess I could just keep it a few feet away from the agaves and hit the rest of the grass if I want to be overly cautious.

Update me on how well the clethodim works, please!

I sprayed 4 days ago when temps were in the low 70s. Used the high rate of clethodim with pendemethlin and added .5oz non-ionic surfactant with a squirt of dye marker. The bermuda looks very sad today. The volunteer cool season grass was taller than recommended however it has lost a lot of green and and is flat.

I'm going to do another application after Thanksgiving but will be using methylated seed oil (MSO) in place of the surfactant. MSO slows the evaporation of the herbicide and is more effective in penetrating waxy cuticles.

[Fairview]

If it won't harm wildflowers, it probably won't harm agaves. You can spray Roundup on and around agaves without harming them, so long as an effort is made to keep it to a minimum.

A bit of trivia. Roundup was originally used as a growth regulator before it was a non-selective herbicide. Too many applicators were using the "more is better" technique and resulted in scorching turf.

[mcvansoest]

I will give this a try... I just spent two hours yesterday pulling bunches and bunches of several feet long stringers of Bermuda grass out of my Firesticks bush and besides getting sick of it and hurting my back in the process, I got to a point where I either decide to take out the Firesticks or spray with something and hope for the best. It will probably still take many re-applications to get it, but this sounds very promising.

[Fairview]

I will give this a try... I just spent two hours yesterday pulling bunches and bunches of several feet long stringers of Bermuda grass out of my Firesticks bush and besides getting sick of it and hurting my back in the process, I got to a point where I either decide to take out the Firesticks or spray with something and hope for the best. It will probably still take many re-applications to get it, but this sounds very promising.

It always best to avoid over the top spraying if possible. With bermuda carefully spraying around the base of the Firestick should provide good control of the stringers since they are unrooted. Also with bermuda being a warm season grass, do not expect dramatic results. For herbicides to be effective the target plant must be in an active growing stage. Bermuda will remain green in cool temperatures but not be growing. The bermuda I sprayed was adjacent/up against landscape blocks

[mcvansoest]

I will give this a try... I just spent two hours yesterday pulling bunches and bunches of several feet long stringers of Bermuda grass out of my Firesticks bush and besides getting sick of it and hurting my back in the process, I got to a point where I either decide to take out the Firesticks or spray with something and hope for the best. It will probably still take many re-applications to get it, but this sounds very promising.

It always best to avoid over the top spraying if possible. With bermuda carefully spraying around the base of the Firestick should provide good control of the stringers since they are unrooted. Also with bermuda being a warm season grass, do not expect dramatic results. For herbicides to be effective the target plant must be in an active growing stage. Bermuda will remain green in cool temperatures but not be growing. The bermuda I sprayed was adjacent/up against landscape blocks

Thanks for the advice! I actually spent quite a bit of time yesterday trying to create access to the areas where I would like to spray around the base of the Firesticks. Like you suggest I do not foresee myself just getting the sprayer out and going to town - while easy I know better than to blindly trust such labels. However, the idea that it is not going to be very harmful to Agaves (and other plants) make me less nervous about giving areas around the base of the plants a good drenching which I had hesitated to do with roundup.

One thing I can say: it is growing right now... we had some rain, it is in the 70s-low 80s during the day and still not very cold at night... I removed some lush green new growth that had not been there several days earlier. I wish the actual plants I want to grow would be growing like that right now.

[Fairview]

I will give this a try... I just spent two hours yesterday pulling bunches and bunches of several feet long stringers of Bermuda grass out of my Firesticks bush and besides getting sick of it and hurting my back in the process, I got to a point where I either decide to take out the Firesticks or spray with something and hope for the best. It will probably still take many re-applications to get it, but this sounds very promising.

It always best to avoid over the top spraying if possible. With bermuda carefully spraying around the base of the Firestick should provide good control of the stringers since they are unrooted. Also with bermuda being a warm season grass, do not expect dramatic results. For herbicides to be effective the target plant must be in an active growing stage. Bermuda will remain green in cool temperatures but not be growing. The bermuda I sprayed was adjacent/up against landscape blocks

Thanks for the advice! I actually spent quite a bit of time yesterday trying to create access to the areas where I would like to spray around the base of the Firesticks. Like you suggest I do not foresee myself just getting the sprayer out and going to town - while easy I know better than to blindly trust such labels. However, the idea that it is not going to be very harmful to Agaves (and other plants) make me less nervous about giving areas around the base of the plants a good drenching which I had hesitated to do with roundup.

One thing I can say: it is growing right now... we had some rain, it is in the 70s-low 80s during the day and still not very cold at night... I removed some lush green new growth that had not been there several days earlier. I wish the actual plants I want to grow would be growing like that right now.

Got one of these today. Hopefully it will save my back. The handheld versions work great. I will stil need to use the handheld but hopefully just a little bit.

[nsp88]

I just used Clethodim 2 days ago around my agaves, yuccas and dasylirions. I did not spray over the top however. Because these plants grow so slowly, any damage/death that occurs may not be apparent for several months and not be attributed to the herbicide.

...

I sprayed 4 days ago when temps were in the low 70s. Used the high rate of clethodim with pendemethlin and added .5oz non-ionic surfactant with a squirt of dye marker. The bermuda looks very sad today. The volunteer cool season grass was taller than recommended however it has lost a lot of green and and is flat.

I'm going to do another application after Thanksgiving but will be using methylated seed oil (MSO) in place of the surfactant. MSO slows the evaporation of the herbicide and is more effective in penetrating waxy cuticles.

How did things turn out?

@mcvansoest@abborean did either of you try ornamec yet?

Probably too early to check with any of y'all, but figured since it's been such a mild winter I would see if y'all had tried and seen results.

Lots of grass growing around my agaves in the old hay field, so probably will order something in the next month.

[mcvansoest]

Actually, I did a treatment on a bunch of grass in the late fall and I am excited to have to conclude that while I did not get everything, the grass in the main treatment area is dead and has 99% stayed dead through all the winter rains - whereas the wildflowers and a bunch of wild grass which seeds I am sure I have to thank my neighbors two houses down for are going nuts and some of the non treated areas are bursting with fresh bermuda grass growh. The aloe and agave that was planted in the main treatment area are completely fine and the aloe flowering atm.
So, I am highly encouraged and if I have the time this weekend, I will do another application and go after some other spots where the bermuda grass is deeply entangled in a bush, a tecoma stans, and euphorbia tirucalli.... I will also repeat treat the previously well treated areas to try and get the final 1% and go a little harder in an area where I have another large Agave nickelsiae surrounded by grass.

[nsp88]

Actually, I did a treatment on a bunch of grass in the late fall and I am excited to have to conclude that while I did not get everything, the grass in the main treatment area is dead and has 99% stayed dead through all the winter rains - whereas the wildflowers and a bunch of wild grass which seeds I am sure I have to thank my neighbors two houses down for are going nuts and some of the non treated areas are bursting with fresh bermuda grass growh. The aloe and agave that was planted in the main treatment area are completely fine and the aloe flowering atm.
So, I am highly encouraged and if I have the time this weekend, I will do another application and go after some other spots where the bermuda grass is deeply entangled in a bush, a tecoma stans, and euphorbia tirucalli.... I will also repeat treat the previously well treated areas to try and get the final 1% and go a little harder in an area where I have another large Agave nickelsiae surrounded by grass.

Awesome, good to hear! I have a bunch of seeds I threw out in the fall, and more seedlings I plan to move out there, so that is great.

Unrelated, but how large is your Tacoma stans? I just started seeds for those and orange jubilee variety.

When applying it, how wide/far away were you spraying and how many passes where you making over an area?

Thanks

[Fairview]

I have a few quarter size patches of rescue grass popping up here and there. I just carry my hoe with me and pop it out. No poa or rye despite overseeding my lawn adjacent to the agaves.

The challenge I have now are late winter/early spring broadleaf weeds. I won't use 2,4-D and really hesitant to use Roundup. Agave growth is so slow it could take months for any damage to become evident. Comparable to spraying mature broadleaf weeds in a pasture. They've stopped growing so nothing happens. However shred that pasture and spray a week later and it's like they were hit with napalm.

[mcvansoest]

the problem with Bermuda grass is that it will have runners deep deep down, frequently under concrete or rocks... I have dug down close to 2 feet in own of my front of house slightly raised planters in an effort to root it out look like like it for about a month before the next running peeks up above ground.. let that go for a few weeks, get some rain and it looks like the grass was never gone. It has amazing ability to survive the heat, sun, and dryness here.. I am sure it is why people who wanted grass planted it... but those characteristic make it pretty much impossible to root out with 'benign' methods.

Since I am going to be deploying more of the Ornamec around other plants I am sure I will soon see how far the 'does not affect other plants' goes. Right now my front yard is gearing up for wildflower time so I do not really have to deal with the weeds all the much... just the really obvious 'oh, you grew 4 ft tall in just about 3 days' weeds that are hard to miss.

[nsp88]

@mcvansoest last two questions.

Did you use ornamec 170 or ornamec over-the-top?

If you used 170, did you add a surfactant? I am seeing conflicting info there.

[Fairview]

@nsp88 I used both a surfactant and methylated seed oil (MSO) separately in 2 different application areas. By far the portion where I used the MSO had a significantly better result. Whereas a surfactant makes the water "wetter" and breaks the surface tension so herbicides can get past hairy stems and leaves, MSO acts as a carrier somewhat penetrating the waxy cuticle of the plant.

[nsp88]

@nsp88 I used both a surfactant and methylated seed oil (MSO) separately in 2 different application areas. By far the portion where I used the MSO had a significantly better result. Whereas a surfactant makes the water "wetter" and breaks the surface tension so herbicides can get past hairy stems and leaves, MSO acts as a carrier somewhat penetrating the waxy cuticle of the plant.

Awesome, thanks! You used clethodim, right? I am wondering if it is too late in season to use that, since the grass has been growing for a while. It has already grown about 6 inches in the past month. And it was slowly growing before that. So not exactly new growth, I don't think? I dunno.

[Fairview]

@nsp88 I used both a surfactant and methylated seed oil (MSO) separately in 2 different application areas. By far the portion where I used the MSO had a significantly better result. Whereas a surfactant makes the water "wetter" and breaks the surface tension so herbicides can get past hairy stems and leaves, MSO acts as a carrier somewhat penetrating the waxy cuticle of the plant.

Awesome, thanks! You used clethodim, right? I am wondering if it is too late in season to use that, since the grass has been growing for a while. It has already grown about 6 inches in the past month. And it was slowly growing before that. So not exactly new growth, I don't think? I dunno.

As long as the grass is actively growing it will work. If you're dealing with a running type grass like bermuda it's not always necessary to spray over the top of the desirable plant. Runners that are growing up through a plant are attached to the rooted grass around the plant. Usually spraying around the plant is effective to also control the runners.

Just have patience. The more selective a herbicide is the slower it will work. Broad spectrum act quickly.
MSO has the potential to cause leaf damage when the dilution rate is exceeded or on hot days. .

[mcvansoest]

@mcvansoest last two questions.

Did you use ornamec 170 or ornamec over-the-top?

If you used 170, did you add a surfactant? I am seeing conflicting info there.

I used the 170 and did not use a surfactant.