Winter woes 2024-2025

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Stan
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#101

Post by Stan »

Where was Ovatia discovered? Mt. Everest? So beautiful and hardy too.

Getting colder here as arctic air will bring morning lows to the upper 30's except for Oakland and San Francisco. The NorCal border might see 15f. Inland bay area might reach freezing.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
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Meangreen94z
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#102

Post by Meangreen94z »

Gafoto wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:46 pm And now a little good news…

This ovatifolia x parryi v. truncata looks almost immaculate. A pleasant surprise! The ‘Green Goblet’ behind it looks pretty decent too.
IMG_6285.jpeg

Ovatifolia x utahensis v. nevadensis looks good with some spotting on lower leaves. Not a total shocker considering the hybrid but nice to know it’s decently hardy. The montana x utahensis v. eborispina also looks good.
IMG_6289.jpeg

A feral asperrima pup from Lake Travis, TX that @Meangreen94z sent me. I had too many spares of these so I planted this on early fall in a very difficult spot with almost no winter sun. Some damage but considering it’s just a little pup it looks great. This one is obviously worth trying again with larger plants.
IMG_6290.jpeg
Great info. I had no luck with the ovatifolia x parryi v. truncata hybrid, All 3 died in a 12°F event under a tarp.
I’ll have a better idea on results on Sunday after a couple days of warm temperatures. I could smell something last night in the dark rotting.
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Gafoto
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#103

Post by Gafoto »

Meangreen94z wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:08 pm
Gafoto wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 1:46 pm And now a little good news…

This ovatifolia x parryi v. truncata looks almost immaculate. A pleasant surprise! The ‘Green Goblet’ behind it looks pretty decent too.
IMG_6285.jpeg

Ovatifolia x utahensis v. nevadensis looks good with some spotting on lower leaves. Not a total shocker considering the hybrid but nice to know it’s decently hardy. The montana x utahensis v. eborispina also looks good.
IMG_6289.jpeg

A feral asperrima pup from Lake Travis, TX that @Meangreen94z sent me. I had too many spares of these so I planted this on early fall in a very difficult spot with almost no winter sun. Some damage but considering it’s just a little pup it looks great. This one is obviously worth trying again with larger plants.
IMG_6290.jpeg
Great info. I had no luck with the truncata x ovatifolia hybrid, All 3 died in a 12°F event under a tarp.
I’ll have a better idea on results on Sunday after a couple days of warm temperatures. I could smell something last night in the dark rotting.
The other ovatifolia x parryi v. truncata I planted has some damage for sure. Sadly it’s the one that pups once a year or so. I won’t know what’s fully dead for a while. Lots more winter to go, sadly.

The ultimate low wasn’t impressive but it get quite cold for a while which some of these marginal Agave just can’t handle.
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jam
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#104

Post by jam »

Ovatifolia x utahensis v. nevadensis hybrid is very interesting. Is it fast as pure ovatifolia?
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mickthecactus
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#105

Post by mickthecactus »

The sun is out this morning. That’s a rarity.
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Gafoto
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#106

Post by Gafoto »

jam wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 1:37 am Ovatifolia x utahensis v. nevadensis hybrid is very interesting. Is it fast as pure ovatifolia?
Almost. Much much faster than utahensis v. nevadensis and appreciates regular waterng. Utahensis varieties require careful monitoring of soil moisture when I grow them indoors. The hybrid doesn’t care and soaks it up.
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#107

Post by jam »

Sunny and warm, at least for 48N lat, so did a check on some plants. This smallish montana is going through its first winter and doing just fine. My only montana which makes offsets. I always thought they were strict solitaires. It also has narrower leaves than any other montana that I've seen, even at this age.
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nsp88
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#108

Post by nsp88 »

Stan wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:30 pm It was 80f in Los Angeles today and we will here in the bay area be 68f or more and sunny. There is a historical reason for the fires down there and its all on ranchers,Dept of Fish and Game and the Forest service going back over a century. The state has been stripped of everything native that kept us in evergreen bunch grasses and native fauna and flora. You won't hear those big entities admit a thing...
Not exactly what you're talking about, but I saw this recently about palms and eucalyptus, and was reminded of your comment.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... cNt8yHeeBw

Also not super related to the fire, but of California being stripped. I read this recently. Kinda wild how much it has been altered. I love native habitat restoration projects - hopefully this will be one of those success stories in the future, at least partially.
https://www.californiasun.co/california ... ed-it-dry/
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Gafoto
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#109

Post by Gafoto »

jam wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:55 pm Sunny and warm, at least for 48N lat, so did a check on some plants. This smallish montana is going through its first winter and doing just fine. My only montana which makes offsets. I always thought they were strict solitaires. It also has narrower leaves than any other montana that I've seen, even at this age.
Could very well be gentryi.
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jam
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#110

Post by jam »

Gafoto wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 12:11 pm
jam wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:55 pm Sunny and warm, at least for 48N lat, so did a check on some plants. This smallish montana is going through its first winter and doing just fine. My only montana which makes offsets. I always thought they were strict solitaires. It also has narrower leaves than any other montana that I've seen, even at this age.
Could very well be gentryi.
Yes, it could. Or a hybrid of those two species. I have a gentryi specimen not far away which started off with narrower leaves too.
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Stan
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#111

Post by Stan »

California was a mixed oak woodlands with open areas that had grayish green perennial bunch grasses. Streams and creeks ran all year back then. The cattle ate those slow but steady native grasses. Then ranchers brought in feed that was full of European weed seeds and those grasses that thrived in our cool but wet winters. In summer where it almost never rains they died. Right there our golden fields are pure fuel for fires by fall.
I read that on Mt. Diablo in a trial they cordoned off an area that blocked cattle. They then removed as much non natives as they could. After a few years the native bunch grasses out competed the European annual grasses. Oak tree seeds sprouted. It said that if cattle were banned in California in a few decades our natives would win that battle.
I've hiked in the Hayward hills for decades and saw first hand shallow creeks become deep gullies created by cattle, where old oak and California Bay trees root systems were totally exposed facing the small creeks. When we had a powerful El Nino in the 90's (that Chris Farley loved to pronounce) I saw huge old Bay trees topple.
California should not be golden fields of...dead grass.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
Stan
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#112

Post by Stan »

Was Phoenix actually 84F today? wow. Here it's a Pineapple express although so far rains have not been excessive. Giving the plants a cool drink.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
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nsp88
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#113

Post by nsp88 »

We've been a bit warm, but nothing crazy.
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The panhandle's weather is acting up a bit, though.
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This warm weather has me tempted to put some agave seedlings outside, but I hear talks of another possible vortex in a week or so.
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#114

Post by Stan »

By Saturday that part of Texas might see teens and Brownsville lows will be around 68F or so. Most of Texas right now seems to be having my summer weather.
Here, rains with mild low. Windy too.
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#115

Post by Stan »

It's now pouring rain and the news here have the fallen trees, flooding mud. I was making some guacamole and we had no lemons in the house. So I decided to make a run. With only a t-shirt i went out the sliding door into the backyard in heavy rain and big raindrops. Continued to the side yard where water off the roof is like a waterfall, snagged two Meyer lemons off my tree and did the return trip. That Guac was sure worth it :lol:
Hayward Ca. 75-80f summers,60f winters.
Stan
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#116

Post by Stan »

That rain yesterday set a record for the date in San Francisco with 2.6 inches. Mt. Tamalpias had 17 inches of rain on the day.
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#117

Post by abborean »

frostless here for quite some time and highs 60s or low 70s. We actually have two months until our official last frost date!
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Gafoto
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#118

Post by Gafoto »

abborean wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 9:06 am frostless here for quite some time and highs 60s or low 70s. We actually have two months until our official last frost date!
We had some bizarre southwest flow pushing us into the high 60s for a couple of days. Near record-breaking. I was worried some plants might even start to peak their heads out. We’re back to normal weather now. The big thaw did reveal which Agave are completely toast though. Bit of a bloodbath out there. Room for the new plants in the spring!
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Meangreen94z
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#119

Post by Meangreen94z »

Gafoto wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 9:49 am
We had some bizarre southwest flow pushing us into the high 60s for a couple of days. Near record-breaking. I was worried some plants might even start to peak their heads out. We’re back to normal weather now. The big thaw did reveal which Agave are completely toast though. Bit of a bloodbath out there. Room for the new plants in the spring!
What losses have you seen?


Today 82°F(27.8°C)tomorrow 86°F(30°C) , before cooling off again.
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Gafoto
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#120

Post by Gafoto »

Meangreen94z wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 11:18 am
Gafoto wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 9:49 am
We had some bizarre southwest flow pushing us into the high 60s for a couple of days. Near record-breaking. I was worried some plants might even start to peak their heads out. We’re back to normal weather now. The big thaw did reveal which Agave are completely toast though. Bit of a bloodbath out there. Room for the new plants in the spring!
What losses have you seen?
I won’t say these are all dead, some may sprout back up from the roots or the core may not be fully dead:

Protoamericana x salmiana (survived well under a cover last winter)
‘Logan Calhoun’
‘Mister Ripple’
Parryi v. truncata (seed grown)
Parryi v. truncata x ovatifolia (1 looks bad, the other looks great)
Funkiana blue version (very dead)
Lechuguilla x lophantha (very dead)
Two or maybe three different ovatifolia. ‘Frosty Blue’ may survive.
Murpheyi (very dead)
Two out of four montanas are looking very bad. The others look great.
unknown parryi, maybe truncata
A couple of small utahensis
Parrasana
Asperrima that survive last winter uncovered
‘Crazy Horse’ also uncovered last winter. May sprout from the core.
‘Bluebell Giant’
Parryi x flexispina
Palmeri from Sonoita, AZ. I planted a big one in a sunny location and a small one in a shadier spot. The little one is mush, the larger one looks almost perfect.
Several schotti. Small plants though.
All the mangave are mush but they may sprout from the roots as manfreda do.
The claimed parryi x americana. No pups so it’s toast.
Two different desertii
Small lophantha

We still have a couple months of crummy weather before I’ll know what is fully dead and gone. Some things may get another shot if they live. Others, like ‘Crazy Horse’ and that protoamericana x salmiana are not likely to get another chance since this is the second winter and it’s been fairly dry and totally average temp-wise.
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#121

Post by nsp88 »

Gafoto wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 3:56 pm
Protoamericana x salmiana (survived well under a cover last winter)
‘Logan Calhoun’
‘Mister Ripple’
Parryi v. truncata (seed grown)
Parryi v. truncata x ovatifolia (1 looks bad, the other looks great)
Funkiana blue version (very dead)
Lechuguilla x lophantha (very dead)
Two or maybe three different ovatifolia. ‘Frosty Blue’ may survive.
Murpheyi (very dead)
Two out of four montanas are looking very bad. The others look great.
unknown parryi, maybe truncata
A couple of small utahensis
Parrasana
Asperrima that survive last winter uncovered
‘Crazy Horse’ also uncovered last winter. May sprout from the core.
‘Bluebell Giant’
Parryi x flexispina
Palmeri from Sonoita, AZ. I planted a big one in a sunny location and a small one in a shadier spot. The little one is mush, the larger one looks almost perfect.
Several schotti. Small plants though.
All the mangave are mush but they may sprout from the roots as manfreda do.
The claimed parryi x americana. No pups so it’s toast.
Two different desertii
Small lophantha
Dang it, man. I think you lost more different types than I have in total. I would be depressed. Good thing you grow so many so well!
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Gafoto
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#122

Post by Gafoto »

nsp88 wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 9:57 pm
Gafoto wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 3:56 pm
Protoamericana x salmiana (survived well under a cover last winter)
‘Logan Calhoun’
‘Mister Ripple’
Parryi v. truncata (seed grown)
Parryi v. truncata x ovatifolia (1 looks bad, the other looks great)
Funkiana blue version (very dead)
Lechuguilla x lophantha (very dead)
Two or maybe three different ovatifolia. ‘Frosty Blue’ may survive.
Murpheyi (very dead)
Two out of four montanas are looking very bad. The others look great.
unknown parryi, maybe truncata
A couple of small utahensis
Parrasana
Asperrima that survive last winter uncovered
‘Crazy Horse’ also uncovered last winter. May sprout from the core.
‘Bluebell Giant’
Parryi x flexispina
Palmeri from Sonoita, AZ. I planted a big one in a sunny location and a small one in a shadier spot. The little one is mush, the larger one looks almost perfect.
Several schotti. Small plants though.
All the mangave are mush but they may sprout from the roots as manfreda do.
The claimed parryi x americana. No pups so it’s toast.
Two different desertii
Small lophantha
Dang it, man. I think you lost more different types than I have in total. I would be depressed. Good thing you grow so many so well!
Nothing ventured, nothing gained I figure. It’s a fairly young garden so no sacred cows. I planted things out in 2022 and winter 22-23 was the wettest in Utah’s recorded history. Lost every single Agave except one. That was a depressing season. Some of the plants are starting to look decent but xeric gardening in the high desert requires a lot of patience. I’ll update the hardiness thread in April once I know what is fully dead, fully alive or somewhere halfway.
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mickthecactus
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#123

Post by mickthecactus »

We are back in the run of sunless cold weather. That’s the forecast for next week.
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Paul S
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#124

Post by Paul S »

mickthecactus wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2025 3:19 am We are back in the run of sunless cold weather. That’s the forecast for next week.
And damp. You missed out damp. Sunless, cold, damp weather. I seriously can't remember a winter ever being as sunless as this current one. :(
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Meangreen94z
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Re: Winter woes 2024-2025

#125

Post by Meangreen94z »

Gafoto wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 3:56 pm
Meangreen94z wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 11:18 am
Gafoto wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 9:49 am
We had some bizarre southwest flow pushing us into the high 60s for a couple of days. Near record-breaking. I was worried some plants might even start to peak their heads out. We’re back to normal weather now. The big thaw did reveal which Agave are completely toast though. Bit of a bloodbath out there. Room for the new plants in the spring!
What losses have you seen?
I won’t say these are all dead, some may sprout back up from the roots or the core may not be fully dead:

Protoamericana x salmiana (survived well under a cover last winter)
‘Logan Calhoun’
‘Mister Ripple’
Parryi v. truncata (seed grown)
Parryi v. truncata x ovatifolia (1 looks bad, the other looks great)
Funkiana blue version (very dead)
Lechuguilla x lophantha (very dead)
Two or maybe three different ovatifolia. ‘Frosty Blue’ may survive.
Murpheyi (very dead)
Two out of four montanas are looking very bad. The others look great.
unknown parryi, maybe truncata
A couple of small utahensis
Parrasana
Asperrima that survive last winter uncovered
‘Crazy Horse’ also uncovered last winter. May sprout from the core.
‘Bluebell Giant’
Parryi x flexispina
Palmeri from Sonoita, AZ. I planted a big one in a sunny location and a small one in a shadier spot. The little one is mush, the larger one looks almost perfect.
Several schotti. Small plants though.
All the mangave are mush but they may sprout from the roots as manfreda do.
The claimed parryi x americana. No pups so it’s toast.
Two different desertii
Small lophantha

We still have a couple months of crummy weather before I’ll know what is fully dead and gone. Some things may get another shot if they live. Others, like ‘Crazy Horse’ and that protoamericana x salmiana are not likely to get another chance since this is the second winter and it’s been fairly dry and totally average temp-wise.
Brutal. The small asperrima I sent you still looks alive? Is that “small lophantha” one I sent?
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