Moving on to bigger things

Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Areca, Bismarckia, Brahea, Jubaea, Parajubaea, Phoenix and other Palm species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.

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Meangreen94z
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#51

Post by Meangreen94z »

MockingbirdAgaves wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:00 am Wow how did I miss this post . You guys should really try some Copernicia . I’ve germinated several hundred here in inland so cal and they are doing great . Recently germinated a few hyphaene . Dichotoma and compressa .
Nice,if you don’t mind me asking where did you find Dichotoma and Compressa seed? I have Coriacea, Thebaica, and Petersiana seedlings going.

Out of Copernicia I only have Alba and Prunifera
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#52

Post by KLC »

Here’s some of my palm seedlings I’ve been working on for a while now. Nothing exotic at all I want to be able to grow them in Arizona.

Phoenix canariensis
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Phoenix dactylifera 'Medjool'
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Phoenix reclinata
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Phoenix theophrasti and sylvestris
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Roystonia regia "Cuban Royal"
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Bismarkia nobilis
I knew I kept all of these buckets for a reason. There are zero 15g containers to be had right now not even the local nurseries will part with them.
I've got about another 23 that are still single leafers that can stay in their 14" treepots for another year. I'm contemplating germinating another 1000 or so this summer, I have a good contact in Florida who has fruit from his trees that reliably germinates.
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Wodyetia bifurcata
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Sabal palmeto
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#53

Post by KLC »

I'm really looking for Medemia argun, the Texas Cold Hardy guy had them listed on his website but he is all out of them. I know there are palm people who have them now and then.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#54

Post by Meangreen94z »

KLC wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:01 am I'm really looking for Medemia argun, the Texas Cold Hardy guy had them listed on his website but he is all out of them. I know there are palm people who have them now and then.
I contacted this seller on Etsy a couple months ago, he confirmed they were Medemia argun seed. A little odd that he didn’t put that in the title or description. The price isn’t cheap, but it’s the last source of seeds that I’m (currently) aware of.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/955500240/ ... lm-5-seeds
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#55

Post by KLC »

^^^This source has no shipping to USA. RPS does have seeds in stock...
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#56

Post by KLC »

I've now excavated all of the way around my B. armata to a depth of about 8 inches and in the coming months I'll do another 8 inches before I get it spiked off underneath. I've been doing this root pruning with the hopes that it will allow me to safely perform a move to a big wooden box for use at our new property we bought in Wittmann, Az. That rootball is bigger than it looks, it's every bit of 36" in diameter, after the next excavation I will tightly wrap the rootball with a moving blanket to hold it together and use a cherry picker and strap to remove it from the ground.

When the move gets closer I'll explore excavating around my decent sized Bismarkia nobilis, a palm that is reportedly not a good candidate for transplant. However there are professional palm people in Florida who field grow Bismarks for transplantation into commercial landscapes so I know it can be done.

And other news, I have given up trying to procure reasonably priced plastic pots for use in the nursery. I've been looking for 5s and 15s for a while now and they are hard to come by. Yesterday I ordered some of the fabric nursery containers and they arrived the same day thanks to Amazon Prime. I up potted about 20 of my 1g palms today and I like them, we will see how they hold up. My intuition says they will last long enough for the palms to be put into yet bigger containers in another year or so.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#57

Post by Meangreen94z »

KLC wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:44 pm I've now excavated all of the way around my B. armata to a depth of about 8 inches and in the coming months I'll do another 8 inches before I get it spiked off underneath. I've been doing this root pruning with the hopes that it will allow me to safely perform a move to a big wooden box for use at our new property we bought in Wittmann, Az. That rootball is bigger than it looks, it's every bit of 36" in diameter, after the next excavation I will tightly wrap the rootball with a moving blanket to hold it together and use a cherry picker and strap to remove it from the ground.

When the move gets closer I'll explore excavating around my decent sized Bismarkia nobilis, a palm that is reportedly not a good candidate for transplant. However there are professional palm people in Florida who field grow Bismarks for transplantation into commercial landscapes so I know it can be done.

And other news, I have given up trying to procure reasonably priced plastic pots for use in the nursery. I've been looking for 5s and 15s for a while now and they are hard to come by. Yesterday I ordered some of the fabric nursery containers and they arrived the same day thanks to Amazon Prime. I up potted about 20 of my 1g palms today and I like them, we will see how they hold up. My intuition says they will last long enough for the palms to be put into yet bigger containers in another year or so.

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I would say that armata is well worth taking. Lowes seems constantly out of containers but the local Home Depot’s have had pretty consistent stock.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#58

Post by KLC »

My Phoenix canariensis that I am planning on relocating to our new property in the next 1-2 years, with a crane of course. It doesn’t appear to have much girth but it is definitely a big boy.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#59

Post by Azuleja »

Very cool!

These were grown from seed at the nursery where I work and field grown for 11 years to reach this size. They range from 3-6' of brown trunk. Last year they got dug and potted in 300 gallon tubs. This year they got trimmed and have been shipping out. All of this has been so amazing to me.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#60

Post by Meangreen94z »

Phoenix canariensis is bulletproof . It came back more consistently from our 2021 freeze in Texas than even Butia or Washingtonia filifera. There are specimen that saw -2°F and 9 days straight below freezing outside Dallas
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#61

Post by Melt in the Sun »

Are you going to open a nursery up there in Wittman?

Interesting to see the color variability in the Bismarkia seedlings! I wonder how much of that will stick as the plants get older.

Am I correct in thinking the pictured B. armata is approximately the same age as your Bismarkia? I've been considering a big silvery palm for a prominent spot in the new yard, and those are two of my contenders.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#62

Post by Meangreen94z »

Melt in the Sun wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:58 pm Are you going to open a nursery up there in Wittman?

Interesting to see the color variability in the Bismarkia seedlings! I wonder how much of that will stick as the plants get older.

Am I correct in thinking the pictured B. armata is approximately the same age as your Bismarkia? I've been considering a big silvery palm for a prominent spot in the new yard, and those are two of my contenders.
Bismarckia is a lot faster growing
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#63

Post by KLC »

Melt in the Sun wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 12:58 pm Are you going to open a nursery up there in Wittman?

Interesting to see the color variability in the Bismarkia seedlings! I wonder how much of that will stick as the plants get older.

Am I correct in thinking the pictured B. armata is approximately the same age as your Bismarkia? I've been considering a big silvery palm for a prominent spot in the new yard, and those are two of my contenders.
Wasn't planning on a formal palm nursery however I'd like to dabble in growing them for future income potential once they get to a certain size. Palms, like anything else grown in a nursery, is a slim profit unless you have many of them. It takes way too long to produce them and takes up too much real estate for what you get out of them. Right now because I got a little bored with agaves I am enjoying just growing the palms.

I am keeping all of the Medjools and Canary Island dates for landscape use. I'm hoping that at least one of the Medjools is a male and that the dates they will make actually taste good. They say the only way to grow a Medjool that makes good dates is by growing a pup from a tree that is known to produce good dates. Getting a male tree from seed is also hit or miss, they are reportedly only 1 in 100. You can buy "male" specific pups but they are very expensive. Same goes for Bizzys they require both genders to make viable seed. We shall see when the time comes.

The purple leaves on the Bizzys is pretty normal for them coming out of the winter. My big one used to be completely purple but doesn't change colors too much anymore, it is also a green variety and not the more desirable silver color. The silver reportedly has a few more degrees of cold tolerance although I think any Bizzy does pretty good down to the mid 20s. Even if they defoliate from the cold by April they will regrow their crown.

I planted the B. armata from a 5g size, the base was about as big as a softball and it had 8 or 10 leaves. The nursery I bought it from warned me that they were slow. Mine has been in the ground for literally about 14 years and has been agonizingly slow. It probably doesn't get as much water as it would like and it is in front of a west facing masonry wall, so given those circumstances it has probably been stunted a bit. I do trim leaves off of it once in a while so I know it is growing, just very slowly. I see them around town that are much bigger, they may be getting more water than mine does.

And yes Bizzys are one of the fastest growing palms around. Is the B armata the same age as the Bizzy? Although they were planted at about the same time, the Bizzy was already in a 30g tub, however the B armata is probably an older palm even though it is much smaller. B armata isn't a palm you'd want to buy in anything smaller than a 24" box unless you've got several decades of patience.

With all of that said, I'm in my early 50s and I think about all of the palms I "could" have started from seed back when I was 20. A few hundred Jubaea chilensis comes to mind lol.

Ajuleja those Canaries are awesome I love them. I'm going to plant all of mine in the ground when we get to Wittmann and hope to have a nice field of them in 10 years. they do grow super fast.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#64

Post by KLC »

These washies that belong to the guy who lives behind me were barely as high as the brick wall when we moved here in 2006. There are a lot of palm people who think they are a less than desirable palm to grow but personally I like them, especially when they’re about this tall and there are many of them. When the wind blows they are noisy though lol.
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Here are 19 Wash. robusta that I’ve been growing from seed for 2 years now. They will get big fast.

Due to the absence of reasonably priced nursery pots I’ve resorted to these “panda” bags. They seem to be durable enough. Time will tell.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#65

Post by Meangreen94z »

Medemia argun is back in stock at rarepalmseeds.com . They are large seeds so a phyto would be needed
https://www.rarepalmseeds.com/medemia-a ... h=Hyphaene
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#66

Post by KLC »

I wouldn't mind buying a few hundred of them to try out, I'd be certain to get the right permits too. After reading several accounts of failures getting them past the single leaf stage I am a bit hesitant though.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#67

Post by Tom in Tucson »

Medemia seeds are easy to germinate. The hardest part about growing them is dealing with the deep root systems. I had several deep community pots with 3-6 seedlings per pot. I waited too long to separate them into individual pots. The roots were so intertwined that many of them broke off during separation. Lesson learned. If I grow more I will use deep tree pots with 1 palm in each.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#68

Post by KLC »

Fresh Bismarckia nobilis seeds are germinating! Out of 200 I’ve had 37 pop open so far, still too early to say there will be no more from this batch. I’ll give them another month before I will say they’re done. I expect another dozen or so will germinate. Only time will tell.

Out of the 37, there are a few that will not successfully throw up their first leaf for one reason or another. I’m happy with the ratio so far though, these super fresh seeds have done better number wise than the last 2 batches I got from my guy in Florida.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#69

Post by KLC »

I've been germinating the bizzys in moist peat inside of lightweight "tupperware" containers with the lids snapped on. These have been placed out on the nursery bench in the shadehouse and they do get very warm inside during the day here in Phoenix. Oddly enough I had the highest number of seeds germinate when the temps were over 110f so heat is definitely a factor for successful germination. Some of the seeds that haven't germinated seem to have leaked some type of liquid from end where the root normally breaks through, it's easy to spot because that's where mold grows very quickly. I normally take moldy seeds out and clean them and put them back in the containers. I honestly haven't been keeping track of which ones have done what so I can't say for sure that the ejection of liquid renders them nonviable or not, although I'm fairly certain that is a sign that they are done. I do remove seeds that have germinated and put them into a container with fresh peat to let the root grow to at least an inch or more, this seems to help with losses due to fungus gnats which just love to grow in peat moss.

I potted up another 13 today which brings my total to 50 or so. A few of the early ones have put up a leaf spike already and a bunch of them have grown roots out the bottoms of their 14" tree pots already. As long as I don't break the roots that have exited the bottoms of the pots, they seem to dry up on their own and cause no issues. The 15 that I have put into 5g buckets did not come out of their tree pots in one big plug as I had hoped for, but they all have been growing by leaps and bounds over the summer so far so no harm was done during transplanting.

Needless to say I have a lot of Bismarckia nobilis growing, I'll post some pics as they grow.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#70

Post by Stan »

How envious. Working in a greenhouse back in the day,the real growing season was about 11 months. Seemed like once the end of January came,the tropicals were off and growing and some cycads were flushing. C. circinalis would flush up to four times a year. I planted seeds,took cuttings. Now,outdoors here in the bay area its only warm enough to get started in mid June with real tropicals and seed growth and all the rest. Even if the winter is frost free,it's never chill free.
Always meant to put up a small greenhouse..no artificial heat. I wonder how productive that would be?
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#71

Post by KLC »

I’ve got bizzys on the brain lately, they seem to be liking the heat and humidity. By next summer they’ll be ready for our full Phoenix sunshine.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#72

Post by KLC »

These 2 tall ones are my Cuban Royals, they will be ready for some sunshine by next year. Despite their origins and tropical look, Cuban Royals will thrive here in Phoenix. There is a huge one planted at the state capitol grounds that has been growing there for years unprotected.
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Phoenix dactylifera gaining some speed
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Phoenix canariensis
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Some Phoenix canariensis seedlings germinated in May, I collected the seeds from a tree I discovered locally that was loaded with viable seeds.
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A few hundred Washingtonia filifera seedlings that were also germinated in May of this year, collected from some very old and tall trees behind an Amazon distribution center in my town of Goodyear. These had been there for decades and are relatively isolated from any of the more slender robusta that also grow here by the millions.
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Phoenix reclinata doing well, the palm in the lower right of the photo was from the same seed batch but it’s obviously got some other genes in the mix. All of the seeds were similar and I didn’t expect this, the other 9 appear to be the same.
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My army of Washingtonia robusta growing nicely with some sunshine. These will be part of my new landscape.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#73

Post by KLC »

My big landscape bizzy is pushing out 6 spears at a time now, all without very much water at all. We have had a decent amount of rainfall lately though. I love the fuzz on the leaf petioles.
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And I’ll be gosh darned that every single bizzy seed that had germinated has successfully put up a leaf. The final tally for this year was 57. Next year I may resurrect my agave seed germination enclosure so that I can better control the temp and order up a sizable number of fresh seeds from my guy in Florida. Gotta wait until next June for that though, even though 2 month old seeds are still available it is much too late in the season to get them germinated and a leaf sent up above the ground. The heat won’t stick around long enough for that.

I mixed up my palm seed mix with 50/50 Kellogg potting soil and ground up peat moss. The soil stays very wet, enough so that I have only been hand watering them every 3 or 4 days. I’ve been using water from a 5g bucket that I save while waiting for shower water to get hot. It goes a long ways in a watering can. I have reduced my overall agave inventory to just a handful of favorites so my watering schedule is very light these days. I’m trying to conserve as much as I can. I still have room for improvement though.
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Re: Moving on to bigger things

#74

Post by Meangreen94z »

I guess those Hyphaene seed never developed? I can try reaching out to someone local to you to see if they have spare seed. I think the trick may be letting the seed dry out for a while after removing the fruit. Then soaking them for a couple days, which may emulate their native seasonal rain patterns and trigger germination. I had high germination from all the old dried out seed I received, vs. 0 from freshly cleaned seed.
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:30 am
Location: Phoenix, Az.

Re: Moving on to bigger things

#75

Post by KLC »

Nope none of those ever germinated. I'd welcome any local Hyphaene seeds.
Don't California my Arizona!
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